Why suicide might be the one unforgiveable sin.

Their are people who use the label of "disease" as a way to enable them not to change their habits. They can't change because it is a "disease," "not their fault." That's all. I have no disdane for anyone in such a condition. I'd help them if had any power to do so. But throwing money at someone unwilling to take responsibility for their own actions, and unwilling to help themselves, is enabling them all the more and throwing the money out the window.

 

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Wow! I thought we were talking about suicide? I had a boyfriend, that had asked me to marry him commit suicide. I was blamed for his suicide because I broke up with him. I was told not to go his funeral because his family was blaming me. Then because he was their only son, his father killed himself.

Do you think I had issues to deal with after that? My brother went to his funeral and said it was open casket and he had the most horrible expression on his face. You have to wonder why they insisted on leaving the casket open for people to see that.

He told me while we were together that he was in trouble emotionally and I told him to seek out a church, a pastor to talk to. I did not know how to help him. I did not know he was suicidal however. I realised something was terribly wrong with him and that is why I broke up with him. Later my father told me it was a good thing in his own words he reasoned he might have killed me and then killed himself.

We built a house together from the ground up. I helped him to lay the foundation putting in the concrete blocks with cement. I felt guilty for years wondering if I had pushed him over the edge by the break up? I struggled with, "Is he in hell?" "Is it my fault?" His family certainly thought so. Or maybe like my father reasoned he was mentally unbalanced and he might have taken me out with him? I will never know the answers to my questions. Insanity is mental illness. I think you have to be insane to kill yourself.

In the case of Masada it was more merciful to kill quickly than to be tortured by the Roimans.

 

To answer all those who were asking why is this a topic on my mind I will go back to what I originally said, that it was a topic we had been discussing at work and for me personally I don't know anyone that's committed suicide nor would I ever think about trying it. Because even if I live to be 90 years old life is still too short and there's nothing I wanna do to speed up the process, because good or bad happy or sad I like it here on earth and I wanna ride this thing out to the end.

 

It was a terrible trauma for me. I spent a lot of time with him and his family. His father killed himself because he could not bear to live without his only son. I would like the reality to be,..............they are both in heaven? I wish I could have comfort just knowing that. I was so young. I was only 19. It was after my divorce when I was married at 17. I was so messed up in my own head, how could I help someone else? No one should be married at 17.

 

I know God forbids speaking to the dead? But sometimes like the television show, Ghost Whisperer, I wish I could find someone like that to put my mind at ease about Alan and his father. The stuff I have read about Ghost Whisperer is based on a real life person that has those things happen to them. But I think the Bible forbids it?

 

The best one that I have heard of is John Edwards and he says that he is a devout christian with a gift, so maybe watching him or reading his books may help. And again I have no clue if suicidal people make it to heaven or anyone else for that matter, it was just a discussion we had at work and we peacefully shared different theories(some biblical & some not).

 

I agree

I've seen numerous suicides; some my clients and some friends and/or family.

 

My daughter's friend from high school - killed himself with a gun tonight. He is dead. Explain suicide to his parents - in a way that would make any form of sense. He was 20 almost 21 - gifted student with a genius IQ and a Senior in College...

I am not God nor will I ever try to be - but surely this poor child was hurting and broken..and God takes those who are wounded in His fold. God will have mercy and grace and in this poor child's death he will be made whole - I believe his sin is forgiven or is hurting is healed - term it what you may.

Someone tell me what I say to comfort his parents and siblings? I have no words.


When my daughter was in sixth grade; her first boy-friend (in name) was shot and killed by his mother - he was shot in the back while trying to save his younger sister - who also died- the mother than turned the gun on herself and killed herself. Are her sins pardoned - I doubt it - I hope they are not - I know that is wrong and my heart is heavy writing that ... was she ill or sick or what? She was mad and money was a factor - I am angry now when I write about her so I beg leave.

 

Hey couldn't resist posting - Saw Robert Downey on the cover Mens Health titled FIGHTING BACK. HMMM...funny i mentioned him and his beast - perhaps if he didn't fight back he'd have committed suicide though addictions are slow suicide.....i rest my case.

Sorry Cynthia for your loss at that young age I hope you seek help with talk therapy and/or possible some...oops, pharmacuticals to help you live life ALIVE not DEAD because of this incident. Stories like yours can create our own personal issues that can be helped by spending some money for available good tools out there if you feel lost and alone. Peace to you and for sharing.

 

Last evening, Dolfan reminded me of a post I made a few months ago that deals with this very idea. I do not take credit for it, as I did not write it. But I do agree with it.

"God alone is Lord of the conscience, and He has left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men which are contrary to His Word or not contained in it. Church and state should be separate. The state owes to every church protection and full freedom in the pursuit of its spiritual ends. In providing for such freedom no ecclesiastical group or denomination should be favored by the state more than others. Civil government being ordained of God, it is the duty of Christians to render loyal obedience thereto in all things not contrary to the revealed will of God. The church should not resort to the civil power to carry on its work. The gospel of Christ contemplates spiritual means alone for the pursuit of its ends. The state has no right to impose penalties for religious opinions of any kind. The state has no right to impose taxes for the support of any form of religion. A free church in a free state is the Christian ideal, and this implies the right of free and unhindered access to God on the part of all men, and the right to form and propagate opinions in the sphere of religion without interference by the civil power.

Genesis 1:27; 2:7; Matthew 6:6-7,24; 16:26; 22:21; John 8:36; Acts 4:19-20; Romans 6:1-2; 13:1-7; Galatians 5:1,13; Philippians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:1-2; James 4:12; 1 Peter 2:12-17; 3:11-17; 4:12-19.

So the church being the body of Christ, jointly and severally those who live with Christ in their hearts, are to perform the work of Christ in His "body's absence." Doing so is not the role of government. This is an individual pursuit, performed individually or corporately by individuals who elect ban together to do so. But it is not a government role according to any scriptures I read.

And I thank Dofan for reminding me of this earlier post. It's nice to have a 'secretary.'

 

I wanted to clarify that "committing a sin" does not automatically condemn one to Hell (at least not according to Islam). In Islam, we will all face God on the Day of Judgment with our deeds, good and bad. Those whose "good" deeds outweigh their "bad" deeds will be granted Paradise. God Alone will assign the appropriate value to each deed, not me or anyone on this forum.

In Islamic tradition, there is a famous story about a prostitute who is granted Paradise due to the kindness she showed to a thirsty dog when she filled her shoe with water and let it drink. We humans often underestimate the enormous value of simple, meaningful acts and are very quick to condemn other people for their personal weaknesses and failings.

People who commit suicide are often mentally ill, and God does not judge a mentally ill person the same way He judges others.

And, Joy, I suppose this is a side discussion, but I do not agree with the idea that Muslims and Christians worship a different God.

There is only One God, the Creator of the Universe.

Where we differ is in saying that Jesus himself was God or the son of God.

In the Qur'an, God says:

Say: He is God, the One and Only!
God, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begets not, nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him.

The third line above is a direct reference to the idea that God bore a son (Jesus).

But again, I believe that Muslims and Christians are both believers in the same One God.

 

But if you don't mind me taking up the mantle until Joy shows up, the God of Islam and the God of Christianity have two completely different personalities. The Christian God sanctions not our life works as anything of value toward salvation. Man is corrupt, imperfect, to begin with. And therefore the only way to salvation is through a perfect God's infinite capacity for grace. But according to you above, the God of Islam only judges one's life works. In my book, those would be two different God's with two different personalities, imparating two different sets of morals and virtues, on mankind. Now I understand that the Christian God, according to Islamic teachings, is portrayed to Christians through corrupted scriptures. That being the case though, at the most, Christians worship an image of God that does not really exist. So that being the case, the Christian God cannot be one and the same as the Islam God, because according to Islam, the Christian God, as portrayed in the Old and New Testaments, Himself, does not exist as portrayed. So according to those teachings, the Christian God can at best be a phantom.

Now according to Christianty, the God of Islam can only be a manifestation of work by Satan, a phantom as well. All that is not of God in the Old and New Testaments is of Satan, so Islam would not be alone in that description. I expect that you would not take particular offense to my saying this because, believing in Satan themselves, Muslims would hold the same teaching against the Christian God. But either way, both Christians and Muslims believe that their is but one almighty God. So if one of these God's exists, then one is false and does not exist. Perhaps neither exist. But if one does, I cannot see how Christians and Muslims, in a de facto sense, worship the same God. Plainly, at most, one of these sets of folks would be worshipping an idol, a god made up by man, in an image imparted by man, for certain of man's purposes.

 

Okay, well, this is getting too messy for me. I'm out. If I've contributed to stirring up the controversy or have seriously offended anybody, I apologize.

 

Thanks for your input Joy and I apologize if I started a sore subject or any controversy, and not one person here on earth truely knows what is going on on the other side or exactly what takes place after death. It's a great mystery and I think it has been purposely kept as one to keep us all wondering, and to hopefully make us live right.

 

I have to disagree with you on one thing Chris, for me death brings no mystery, I know what happens on the other side, I am 100 percent certain.... and it is a good feeling to have... But it is a personal decision that each person must make..

 

I am talking about the actual feel, touch, and smells, as well as all the things & lost loved ones you will see around you and what they might look like. None of us know the exact layout of heaven & hell, because no one has gone and spent time there and brought back pics or video or anything that shows the exact process that takes place. I mean, I have a good idea of what landing on the moon might have been like but I cannot speak on it 100% as if I do know because...........never been there.

 

Hey, As long as Jesus is there and I get my new body with no pain and no tears......praise God!!!!!!!

 

I have thought about seeking someone out with the gift of seeing and talking to dead people? But, I haven't because I am afraid it might be a sin? I'm so confused about this particular issue.

I do want to clear up a possible misconception. I am now 53 years old. This happened to me in my early twenties. I never got over it because I don't know where Alan is? I don't know if he is in heaven? What about his father? That is where the temptation comes in to talk to someone who has those abilities. But I remember reading where God got mad at King Saul for talking to a dead prophet. I don't know if you recall the Biblical story?

Has anyone seen the horrible news of the young girl that was bullied to death? She was so horribly bullied she committed suicide. What about her? I can't imagine a God or Jesus that would say, "Well you think those bullies were bad, wait until you get a taste of hell?" Because she committed suicide out of anguish and fear and torment of her bullies?

I would hate to think the God I know and love and serve would be that well lets just say it, "twisted?" Anyone? Any thoughts on this?

 

It ain't God who would be inviting ungodly spirits into your life. It would be you. So can't pin the repurcussions on God. A few months ago we had a spiritist sow up here. Google that term and then search for that term here. You should find her post and the discussion that follows. It is interesting but nothing that you want to get into.