NUCCA success rate

does anyone know of any official % success rates of NUCCA as a treatment for menieres? I have spoken to a lot of menieres people recently and all have had zero success with NUCCA, not 1 success story and not even an improvement in any symptom.
I tried a chiropractor before that specializes in upper cervical and I had no improvement either, although my right side felt a lot lighter due to weight loss from my wallet...
The reason I ask is I was considering sending my mother in law who suffers terribly from trigeminal nueralgia to a NUCCA practicioner in the UK ( DR. HEIDI GRANT ), but I am having second thoughts now due to all the negative feedback.
has anyone here had continued success with NUCCA and are sure that the success does not co incide with remission?

 

I did it for a full year. twice a week. would i do it again.. NO.

 

It is difficult to determine based on the postings on this board what the success rate might be. For me, personally, it was a waste of time and money. But that was just my experience.

The reason I say it is difficult to determine here is because of how "success" is purportedly measured. I recall JOH saying a few times that when he calculates his regimen success rate, he does not count people who are undergoing other treatments/modalities because there is no way of knowing whether the remission was brought on by his regimen or by whatever else the person was doing.

By contrast, what you find a lot in the anecdotal stories on this board is that people are doing NUCCA in conjunction with prescription meds, JOH and other modalities, and if they get any relief it immediately gets unquestioningly attributed to NUCCA. My personal opinion is that it doesn't work at nearly the rate that is claimed.

 

Irelandman:

I would listen to your doctor and follow sound medical advice, I personally would not go to a Nucca dr if you were paying for it. For me it was a waste of money. I went once a week for almost a year. They will sure sell you on its benefits though.

 

I did NUCCA for 6 months last year. It did not relieve my symptoms, but my neck is better aligned now. I think it is mostly for people with neck/back pain due to misalignments.

 

Irelandman, you should simply read through the Database thread to discern the answer to your question. Write down the names of the participants and chart the progress they cite. Most of the folks who have been helped, at some time, stop posting. I understand that.

Regarding trigeminal neuralgia, my wife, Winde was diagnosed with that in 1990. Her story in laced throughout my thread in the database. in 2002 she underwent a surgery known as a micro-decompression of the 5th and 9th cranial nerves. Without going into detail she experienced very serious complications. And it was her experience, having exhausted all medical avenues, that eventually brought me into contact with chiropractic. Again, if you are interested to know these stories, you must put forth the effort to go through the database thread.

Today my wife lives an almost perfectly normal existence. For several years we could never have imagined that. I have personal knowledge of Dr. Grant. James has been to her. Several others as well.

You can also suggest to your MIL to investigate Lyrica. That has helped my wife as well.

I wish your MIL the best. TN pain is among the worst pain anyone will ever experience.

Good luck.

 

thanks Henry. I have spoken to Dr heidi grant in the UK who is a NUCCA practicioner, and she claims a very high success rate for both trigeminal and menieres. however, what really puts me off is that I have spoken to dozens of people who have flown over from Ireland to see her at massive expence and not one have had any relief of any symptom, let alone be cured.
This really really puts me off, as I initially had very high hopes.
Therefore, I dont know where she gets her success rates from. maybe a patient feels slightly better after a series of visits, then goes away and does not go back because their symptoms are back and in the meantime Dr heidi claims a success rate maybe?
as i said, i initially has high hopes and was very interested in this treatment, but the sheer volume of negative reports is alarming.
I have read through the database thread, and i know there are a few that claim success, but that is a handful out of possibly hundreds that tried NUCCA with no success.
could their success have coincided with remission? tough call.

 

Although people not me, and who have not my personal experience, claim that I am wrong, in my own case. Because of the presence of a very few, however very vocal minority on this site, you are given to believe that these cases, including my own, were simply spontaneous remissions. Yet the people who actually experienced these changes disagree. So will you trust the people who voluntarily post their personal experiences here, or are you going to believe folks who have no personal experience, but maintain an opinion that is similar to one you come in with? That is a philosophical question.

By the time an upper cervical consideration develops symptoms such as Meniere's or TN, considerable damage has already been done. So even if the upper cervical consideration is responsible for the symptoms, that does not mean that the symptoms are completely reversible. That should make certain sense to you. And if medical science offers no treatment beyond invasive surgery or heavy sedation, then again, it becomes a philosophical decision to try alternative treatments.

My personal philosophy on these things is that I will never cease trying treatments that are non invasive and which I reasonably believe others with similar symptoms have stated benefit. I do not care what it costs. That philosophy has served me well and served my wife well. In her case, it was either give up and let her spend the next 40-50 years writhing in pain, or keep trying things. I chose to keep trying things.

Was it remission? I do not believe in remission. In my mind remission is a way that medical science explains an absence of symptoms without explaining anything. Remission personifies ones symptoms, gives them more credit than they are due, empowers one's symptoms to be able to turn on and off arbitrarily. If there is a reason for one's symptoms in the first place, there is a reason for them to remit if they do. Whatever caused the symptoms in the first place changed. The symptoms subsided as a result. But I do not sanction the idea that remission is spontaneous with no cause. That is just me. Others certainty have their valid opinions.

Regarding your MIL, does she have discrete moments of exquisite face pain, or is her pain chronic? Discrete exquisite pain may be easier to treat than chronic. Either way, because the condition did not come on overnight, but took years to develop, it likely will not go away overnight, even if the cause is the upper cervical. We are blessed to have a provider close by. It would take much dedication to have to fly for treatment. James, however, is one who has indeed flown to Dr. Grant for treatment. So it has been done.

 

I am the vocal minority who has serious doubts about the efficacy of NUCCA for Meniere's Disease. While I have tried chiropractic a few times I have not tried the NUCCA variety. So, don't listen to me, but do as Hank suggests and consider personal experiences of people who have tried it.

If personal experiences are to be considered then the bad must be considered along with the good. The four posters who responded to Irelandman's original post in this thread have all tried NUCCA and all said it did nothing for them. Irelandman mentions dozens of people he has personally spoken to who say the same thing.

I'm not going to enter into any discussions with Henry in this thread as we've done all that before. All I'm saying is what Henry is saying - listen the volunteered personal experiences and make up your own mind.

 

HenrySullivan:"So will you trust the people who voluntarily post their personal experiences here"

I have said in other posts that my vertigo stopped occurring suddenly, with no explanation while I was on zero medication and no special diet. I don't restrict sodium, caffeine , wheat, dairy, or alcohol consumption. I did nothing different from when the vertigo was happening often, yet the vertigo has been gone for more than 3 years. My doctor can't explain it and calls it remission. She says if I go 5 years with out vertigo she will call it burned out.

Will you trust me , HenrySullivan?


HenrySullivan: "I do not believe in remission

But I do not sanction the idea that remission is spontaneous with no cause."

That's exactly what happened to me. You have no personal experience of that, but I do. Yet you do not sanction it.

 

Obviously, Faded, the answer is that you must have walked by a NUCCA chiropractor in public unbeknownst to you and you were cured by his aura. Another NUCCA success story goes in the books!

 

Thanks, Wino. Now that you have cleared up the mystery, I will sleep better. ;D

 

I haven't tried nucca or any chiropractic or any physical therapy. My personal thought, based on no personal experience or research, is that it probably depends on what the cause is in our particular cases. Despite the fact that we may all have the same or similar diagnosis by well qualified practitioners, we don't all have the same thing though we might have the same symptoms. I suspect that some people whose problem is caused by skeletal or muscular problems might get results for chiropractic that people whose problem is viral or auto immune in origin will not. I think one of the reasons people are so fervant for or against a treatment is it really did or didn't work in *their* case. But we don't all have the same thing so there is probably some one else for whom that thing will or won't work.

 

The most helpful answers will come from individuals who have tried NUCCA for trigeminal neuralgia. On this forum Hank's wife Winde appears to be the only one. Several people from this forum met Winde as well as Hank at the recent Nashiville meet up and saw for themselves how the two of them are doing with their health after NUCCA treatments.

There are several forums for those with trigeminal neuralgia and my suggestion would be to look around or even join one and ask those people if they have ever seen a NUCCA practioner. You won't get the answers you are looking for over here because MM and MAV are not trigeminal neuralgia.

 

I agree completely, June. Very well said.

I also like hearing about everyone's successes, and although I have been doing well for the past couple of years, I just file away these other ideas in my mind as possible things to try in the future if needed. Any one treatment doesn't work for everyone. We need to realize that and choose which one or ones we want to try, knowing that it may or may not work, and knowing that any treatment involves an investment of time, money, and risk.

 

Hey Irelandman,

Sorry I haven't posted sooner,have been traveling.
I have done NUCCA,I am lucky in that I think I saw one of the best practitioners of this method out there.He made no promises.As I live in Sweden I saw him when I was back in the states in the summer.I would usually see him once every 2 weeks.Usually about 4 or maybe 5 visits.I remember the first time,my sinuses drained and I felt a change in my body.I could also see in the mirror after treatments that my head was resting properly on the top of my cervical spine.The muscle tension in the left side of my neck slowly went away.My head had a slight lean to one side.( I have posted on Hanks' thread)

I asked my partner once,I don't know if this is doing anything.He said you are better I can see it in the way you are acting.I trust his judgment as he knows me so well.

I had been having neck issues for quite a while and did not want to see a traditional chiro who does the balistic move on the neck.I am not a spring chicken any more and didn't want to have more problems. I had my ent's blessings to pursue chiropractic.

I then continued treatments with Heidi in London.I think I saw her a total of 3 times.The last time I saw her she said I was holding and this was after seeing the guy in the USA about 5 months earlier.
I had 3 treatments last summer with Dr.Denton.Heidi studies with him and goes to him for her adjustments.

Did it cure me? I would say no,but did it help me I would say yes most definitely.This past summer I had sudden hearing loss in both ears.I saw him and I was taking prednisone also,but one night in bed after the treatment I got a huge electric type jolt that seemed to go right through my ears,it was really powerful.My hearing improved,etc.The prednisone I'm sure was the main factor however I am not in any way discounting the manipulation of my neck.I am sure that it was a factor as well.

As June stated it depends on your problem.

Would I go to someone who wanted me to come every week for a year or longer,I don't think so.I gave it a try and it helped me but did not cure me.It looks more and more like I have mav and possibly mm.My main ent doctor is still on the fence and does not want to commit.Do I believe that nucca works in aligning the spine? Yes.

When I am back in the states I will see him again.
If Heidi was closer you should definitely try it out.But I understand the expense part,I took Ryan air on those ridiculously cheap flights,the hotels is where I had to spend.
I personally think that it's not the adjustment (which is so light),it's the way they lie you down and your head is on a type of block.Gravity and the light touch seem to do the trick.I think the traction of this alone would help many people with neck issues.

I know Jayper has seen Heidi,and I don't think it was his cup of tea to be honest but will let him state his experience.

I know that Charisse had great help and right away.That seems to be the thing perhaps your mother in law will know if it feels right..

 

ooohh sorry I did not realise MM is not trigeminal nueralgia, silly silly me. I was thinking of flying over with my mother in law and getting treatment while I was there.

 

Irelandman, your question on this site is actually very appropriate. There is a common link between the cause of Winde's TN symptoms and my Meniere's symptoms. The only reason I was able to uncover the cause of my symptoms is due to the notion that we uncovered hers. While experiencing severe pain, she would commonly experience a certain tinnitus that sounded like a butterfly flutter in her ear. During the time that I was suffering Meniere's symptoms, as she was having severe, acute TN pain, I took her to the chiropractor. On the way she mentioned that butterfly flutter she had been having. Having all kinds of sounds going of in my left ear at the time, I keyed into that statement. After the adjustment, as we were getting into the car, I asked her about the butterfly. Amazingly it was gone.

That is what keyed me into understanding the possibility that the cause of her pain symptoms could be the same as the cause of my Meniere's symptoms. And in my case, it was. Winde's pain related to the 5th cranial nerve. My Meniere's related to the 8th. But both of those nerves attach to the brain stem within a short proximity.

Since there was a link between the cause of Winde's TN symptoms, and my Meniere's symptoms, I expect there are links in many, many cases.

Thus, I believe yours is an excellent question to pose on this site. Best of luck with your MIL.

 

By the people who voluntarily post their personal experiences here, I refer to people who have benefited from UC chiropractic, not people whose symptoms have resolved, seemingly on their own.

My personal belief is that, because there is a cause for everything under the sun, including the sun, there is also a cause for Meniere's symptoms. And therefore, if one's Meniere's symptoms resolve, there is a cause for that as well. But 'remission' is not a cause. 'Remission' is a descriptive term indicating that one's symptoms are no longer present. The symptoms are not no longer present BECAUSE of remission. The symptoms are no longer present BECAUSE whatever was causing the symptoms is no longer causing them. A lack of an effective causative factor results in remission.

So when one experiences remission, one does not experience that at all. One experiences a restoration of the normal condition. Remission is order restored, not a condition or a cause of order restored.

Now you say that there is no cause for your remission. Well, if you do not know what caused the symptoms in the first place, then I am not sure how you can claim positively that there was no cause for them to remit. But 'remission' itself, is not a cause for a lack of symptoms. The cause for a lack of symptoms is that the cause of symptoms is no longer effectively acting to cause the symptoms.

And that is my point. I am sorry that I wrote the line in question such that it could be misconstrued. Please accept my apology on that.

 

HenrySullivan,
I did not say that there was no cause for my remission. I said the vertigo stopped with no explanation because I did not change anything that I was doing/ingesting while the vertigo was active. Where did I say there was no cause for them to remit? I only said the quit unexplained because I had not changed my routine. Something caused it, but I don't know what it was and it wasn't anything I consciously did in an attempt to get them to quit. I don't know why the vertigo has stopped, but I know it has.

You said you didn't believe in remission. I don't care what you call it, my vertigo has abated for more than three years and I don't know why.

You were asking people to take heed to your personal experience, yet you dismiss mine in a heartbeat ,even tho it is on a different subject.

Apologies to Irelandman for taking this thread off the rails.

Last word to Henry.