Discovering Body Logic study group

That's wonderful news oaktree!

 

Looks like this discussion has died down, but I just wanted to wish everyone a HAPPY EASTER!!!

I hope that if nothing else, reading this book has helped you realize just how much is possible by actively taking control of your own health - even in regards to seemingly unresolvable symptoms like tinnitus, vertigo, ear pressure, 'brain fog' and hearing loss.

I have now had the fortune to meet a number of Menieres sufferers and ALL of them had locked in tension around their neck and jaw. If I couldn't see it in them, I could feel it. And I know the connection is there as I watched people work on this and dramatically improve. Remember the very good diagram of the neck muscles Nassman posted here a while back? Well with practise, you can FEEL tension here - actually it becomes easy after a while. The tricky part is working out where it is coming from.

Recognizing a problem is the biggest step towards finding a solution. If tension is an underlying problem, then that's what we need to deal with. But if it's been there for a long time, it will feel 'normal'. The ONLY way to know just how much this will work for you is to do it and see. And naturally, it will help general health so it's a win, win situation. Doctors and health care professionals don't generally realize just how much tension can be released as they are taught to 'treat' in 'appointments' of time. For astonishing results, it has to come from the individual.

If DBL sounds complex, the underlying message is actually very simple. But one 'rude awakening' for many is this can mean adjusting diet, as inappropriate nutrition sets up deficiencies/allergies/bloating/inflammation.

If this thread has now past its used by date, then I just want to take this opportunity to thank all those who have contributed over the months. I suspect this has helped more people than you will know.

Best wishes to everyone.

Lee.

 

Hi Lee,

Good to hear from you. I hope it this thread hasn't died down, I need it still! I've been busy the last few days getting ready for a bathroom remodel, and getting very stressed. It's been fascinating to watch how the stress affects me physically--I can see it more clearly than I used to, and it helps me see how I got into so much trouble physically.

When I'm stressed, or anxious, I stop breathing, I clench my jaw, I hold my body with a lot of tension so my muscles get sore, I get headaches, I spend too much time on the computer and not enough time taking care of my body, and I stop being as mindful about what I eat.

So this morning I didn't feel well at all, and it was a wake up call (so to speak!). Right now it's a full time job for me, taking care of my body, being mindful, and I see how important it is that I do it. What the consequences are if I don't.

I'm so very grateful for all that I've learned from you, Lee, and Diane, and everyone on this thread. I hope it'll keep going!

 

Lee - I am in agreement with oaktree, I too hope it isn't a dying thread, I too need it.
We actually started posting chapter by chapter a couple of weeks ago but I think this week probably has been pretty busy due to the holiday and the arrival of Spring. I know I have been gone most everyday this week.
I have been meaning to read the rest of chapter 6 and comment some more but time just hasn't allowed, maybe I can get to it today sometime.

I too am like you oaktree, I catch myself tensing up often now but just this morning I took my dog out for a walk and I realized my face was all tense and I just made myself relax it a couple of times while out but my thought was - now I am aware of it sometimes and before I was never aware of it and I'm like that with my whole body and even though I'm not doing as much of it as I want to be I am practicing it more often than not.
I have gotten really busy the past couple of weeks because I am feeling alot better in general - still having ear fullness and some tinnitus but my overall health has improved alot BUT I was exhausted yesterday, even had a little 'dizzy' spell Thursday night and that was my clue to SLOW DOWN so I slept in yesterday morning and didn't do as much yesterday and I slept in this morning too and plan to just have a relaxing weekend here at home. I know I really need it.

I really hope we can keep this discussion going and get through the whole book as I think we all need it and those who lurk do too. I also hope Lee, Diane and others who are our examples will be able to pop in from time to time and give us some inspiration and I too am so grateful for what you all have given and I have learned. Happy Easter to ALL!

 

I have now read all this chapter again and I want to comment on a couple of things -

Page 94 - Tension is the 'simplest' explanation for pain and suffering. Trigger pointing is the easiest and most effective means to resolve this tension.

On page 96 Lee states "Yet I managed to regain all of my hearing simply by releasing all tension!"

I am a little discouraged because Lee makes it sound so easy and I am finding it not to be that easy, it's difficult for me to find 'all' trigger points and according to this chapter we need to know the ones that are pulling us out of alignment and correct them to be able to hold alignment.
And how does one eliminate ALL tension? I would be poking and mashing my body all day everyday to do this. I do try and work the trigger points I am aware of so far several times daily and sometimes they are there and other times not but I just don't see how we can get rid of ALL tension and this bothers me because I feel I'll never be able to relieve this ear fullness especially.
Does anyone else feel this frustration?

 

Thanks Intrepid--your post reminds me of the phrase "progress not perfection", which helps me to have some perspective.

SweetTater, I also feel frustrated at times because I feel like I'm working the trigger points I know of over and over again and they don't go away, and I also still have tinnitus and some fullness. In fact I'm having more tinnitus lately, but I think it's because I've been eating more salt.

Dear experts: Are the trigger points supposed to go away eventually? If they haven't yet, am I doing something wrong?

 

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I know I'm repeating this but it just seems to fit so well - "If you think that you can, or that you can't, you are usually right." (Henry Ford) It's belief that gives us the energy and focus to persist at solving stubborn problems.

The ironic thing with chronic illness is it can be easier to do something with absolute conviction when at rock bottom. Being that ill removes a lot of external stress, like working to pay bills or cleaning our house or even if bad enough, caring for our children. When our body has had enough, it's had enough, whether it suits us or not. But as terrible as it feels, this situation has the unlikely benefit of offering time, focus and motivation. So I believe we can learn from people who have pulled back from such a low point. I recently received an email from someone who reads this thread saying they keep at it because it sounds right and they 'have to'. Because of this persistance, they have had some very promising results.

The journey back may be simple in theory, but it requires determination - which requires ongoing belief. So although having less intrusive symptoms seems like an easier starting point, there's the issue of motivation. That's why I asked, "In all honesty, how bad do you want your health?" If brutally honest, some would see that they are actually OK with how they are now (wishing they were better, but not quite ready to make lifestyle changes), some would be ready to make a few changes and some will be ready to do whatever it takes. We have to work out what we want out of it, and go with that. I will always advocate striving for full health because I know how powerful that is. But naturally that doesn't mean you have to. Everyone's level of need/motivation will be different.

If I meet with someone who is starting this, I do my best to prepare them for setbacks. So if they come back and say "Today I feel worse", I remind them to ignore the symptoms and focus on what they are trying to achieve BELIEVING it works. You see, it's not how often a person trigger points or has correct posture, it's how well they get rid of the tension. The tension tells us when we are doing something wrong.

I happened to watch 'The Secret' last night for the second time. In the section on health, they also said that tension is at the heart of ill health. That's why it's so important to have gratitude for what we have, set a clear vision of what it is that we want to achieve and get busy working towards it. I believe it is impossible to release tension if deep down we feel stuck, and that only others are capable of success.


Lee.

 

It's good to have our experts back giving us advice - thanks so much Lee & Diane!

I hope you two do not get tired of reminding us newbies that we need to be patient and persevere.
I do BELIEVE this will work but I just get impatient. I have to look also to where I've already come from in the past month to where I am now. I was a mess a month ago but now I am feeling so much more normal! I still have ear fullness/low tinnitus and the ear fullness is very annoying but if I can go as far in the next 4 weeks as I have come in the last no telling what I'll be doing!
Thanks for hanging in there with us!

 

This week we begin Chapter 7 Using The Body's Logic To Self-Treat Trigger Points

Open for discussion...

 

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pardonme - I don't know your history with Intrepid, nor do I care to know.

But I do know a patronizing answer when I see one.

Yes, you are frustrated with people not "getting it" when it comes to DBL. And yes, you have expressed that many times here on this thread.

But think how much more effective your messages are when you are speaking to a newbie....how motivating your words can be when you assure people that results not happen overnight, that there is a good sequence to follow, and that anyone can learn to do this.

You have been able to answer the same questions over and over, yet when Intrepid asks - IMO - a valid question, she gets the same kind of reaction you usually reserve for people who discount DBL's effectiveness....(those people who don't "get it")

I think you have done much good here by filling in for Lee when it comes to questions about her book and her practices. You have encouraged many to try new things that they might not have tried otherwise.

I just wish you didn't take certain questions so personally...

 

^^

The reason she takes them personally is because Sarita (intrepid) asks a valid question which Pardonme knows, deep down, does not have a clear-cut answer as simple as "find your trigger points...and so on...."

Nystagmus is not a simple condition to treat because it has several possible causes:

Peripheral nystagmus occurs as a result of either normal or diseased functional states of the vestibular system and may combine a rotational component with vertical or horizontal eye movements and may be spontaneous, positional or evoked.

Positional nystagmus occurs when a persons head is in a specific position. An example of disease state in which this occurs is Benign paroxysmal positional vertigo (BPPV).

Gaze Induced nystagmus occurs or is exacerbated as a result of changing one's gaze toward or away from a particular side which has an affected vestibular apparatus.

Post Head Shake nystagmus occurs after an imbalance is created between a normal side and a diseased side by stimulation of the vestibular system by rapid shaking of the head.

Spontaneous nystagmus is nystagmus that occurs randomly, regardless of the position of the patient's head.

Central nystagmus occurs as a result of either normal or abnormal processes not related to the vestibular organ. For example lesions of the midbrain or cerebellum can results in up and down-beat nystagmus.

Causes
The cause for pathological nystagmus may be congenital, idiopathic, secondary to a pre-existing neurological disorder or may be induced temporarily by certain drugs (alcohol and other central nervous system depressants and stimulants, such as lithium salts, phenytoin and ecstasy).


Congenital
Congenital nystagmus occurs more frequently than acquired nystagmus. It can be insular or accompany other disorders (such as micro-ophthalmic anomalies or Down's Syndrome). Congential nystagmus itself and is usually mild and non-progressive. The affected persons are not normally aware of their spontaneous eye movements but vision can be impaired depending on the severity of the movements.

Infantile:
Idiopathic
Albinism
Aniridia
Leber's congenital amaurosis
Bilateral optic nerve hypoplasia
Bilateral congenital cataracts
Rod monochromatism
Optic nerve or macular disease
Persistent tunica vasculosa lentis
Latent nystagmus
Nystagmus blockage syndrome

Acquired

Diseases
Some of the diseases which present nystagmus as a pathological sign are:

Benign Paroxysmal Positional Vertigo
Head trauma
Stroke (the most common cause in older people)
Ménière's disease and other balance disorders
Multiple sclerosis
Brain tumors
Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome
Encephalopathy
Lateral medullary syndrome
Aniridia
Optic nerve hypoplasia
Albinism
Noonan syndrome
Pelizaeus-Merzbacher disease
Superior canal dehiscence syndrome
Tullio phenomenon
Horner's Syndrome

Toxic/metabolic
Nystagmus from toxic or metabolic reasons could be the result of e.g.:

Alcohol intoxication
Lithium
Barbiturates
Phenytoin (Dilantin)
Salicylates
Benzodiazepines
Lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD)
Phencyclidine (PCP)
Ketamine
Other anticonvulsants or sedatives
Methylenedioxymethamphetamine
Wernicke's encephalopathy
Thiamine deficiency

Central nervous system disorders
If the pathologic nystagmus is based in the central nervous system (CNS), such as with a cerebellar problem, the nystagmus can be in any direction including horizontal. Purely vertical nystagmus is usually central in origin.

Causes include e.g.:

Thalamic hemorrhage
Tumor
Stroke
Trauma
Multiple sclerosis

Other causes
Vestibular Pathology (Ménière's disease, SCDS (superior canal dehiscence syndrome), BPPV, Labyrinthitis)
Trochlear nerve malfunction

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So, as you can see, there is no mention of muscle problems of the neck or trigger points mentioned. At best, it is a guess by mnme and pardonme that trigger points or muscle knots in the neck can cause nystagmus. There is no scientific proof. Therefore, when a challenging (and direct) question is asked and a definite answer is not known, the usual tactic is one of patronization as we have seen by pardonme to Sarita in this case.

 

Hi everyone,

I would appreciate it if we kept personal messages to PMs, and kept this thread on topic. I envision this thread as place for support for people who are trying to implement Lee's ideas from her book, and that's it. It's not a place to discuss whether or not her ideas are effective. Agreed?

When I first read this chapter, and read the words: "Your body will show you exactly where trigger points exist" I didn't understand it. How would it show me? But after messing around a bit, I started to get to know my body better. One day my left arm was tight when I stretched it, and somehow my fingers went a spot on my left chest that was tender. I'd never noticed that point before. I worked on that spot for a while, and my arm felt looser. I don't know how I knew that was the spot to work on, I just did.

I still struggle to visualize the skeleton and muscular system, but I find that my fingers will always find the tender spot, the sore spot, the place that needs work. Is that what's meant by body logic?

I know that since MM, I've had a lot of muscle tension and body discomfort, because of tilting my head, compensating because of balance problems, and just being anxious about vertigo or dizziness. At the very least, if DBL does nothing else, what I've learned already has made a huge difference in my well being and quality of life. My range of motion has increased, my joint pain has decreased, I have more energy, I just feel better.

So thanks everyone for your support
Nina

 

Nina - I agree that this should be a place for support for people who are trying to implement Lee's ideas from her book.

Unfortunately, I have not always felt like my posts here have been supported....there's always a "Yes, BUT" reply from pardonme.

I spoke up in my previous post because the tone of pardonme's reply to Intrepid's question was really not conducive to a supportive atmosphere.

I was not debating whether or not Lee's ideas are effective; in fact, I think I have made it clear that in my case, they are.

I apologize if I have caused this thread to go off-topic once again.

At this point I am very happy with the combination of modalities I am using to reduce and eliminate pain, and will just stick to those.

I wish you all good health.

 

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I will only say one thing here. Sarita has structural problems in her cervical spine, problems that can only be addressed mechanically, either by physical manipulation of the spine or perhaps even surgery. And because her problems do not result from muscle, soft tissue, but rather from bone and disc, hard tissue, it is doubtful that a soft tissue remedy will be effective. That is really all I have to say.

 

Nassman, I never found specific trigger points that connected to nystagmus. Pardonme was explaining that she had for 'tinnitus and bouncy eyes', so I was learning one of her personal discoveries. Sharing these is what this thread is about. If you ever decide to read the book you will learn my view.
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The occasional personality clash is inevitable on an open forum. It's a shame it has to be that way, but for those applying these ideas, the best advice is to try not to be distracted from your ultimate goal. Put your health first.
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Hank, NUCCA is undoubtedly a worthwhile treatment option for those who can afford it.

YES Nina! That's it exactly! Good on you!
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How I wish I could show you how well these ideas work. But it's little surprise when you consider that they pull together all of the 'good ideas' that have stood the test of time - the health basics. The only difference is that instead of paying others to help us, we help ourselves. Being able to apply it anytime, anywhere is what makes it so powerful. As Oaktree stated, the goal of this thread is to help support anyone applying this. Naturally there will be hiccups as people have differing expectations/dreams/experiences. The key is to focus on what is helpful. Sound familiar?

Lee.