DBL support group ... everyone welcome!

Thanks Hank, Kim, and Diane for your responses.

Diane and Kim, thanks for telling me about TP injections. I feel moved to hear about how much pain you were in, and inspired that you've come so far. And thanks Diane, for giving me a place to start. I like the idea of focusing on the SCM muscles for one month, and I'll look into magnesium.

For some reason, I had a better day today. I drove for the first time in three weeks! And I wasn't dizzy. I went to my chronic illness support group, and the whole time I was pushing and pressing my neck and shoulders. I've found a spot--I think it's the scalenes?--right above my right collarbone, that is so rich, if you know what I mean. When I press on it and inhale I feel a bone unlock in my back, I think. Anyway, I can't stop now. I can't wait to read Lee's book and learn more.

Thanks for all of you being here!
Nina

 

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I agree completely with that. I have written this before, but some may have missed it. I write much about my wife's TN, (Trigeminal Neuralgia) because it was by finding the cause of her symptoms that I also found the cause of my own Meniere's. That cause was the same as hers, a misalignment of the first vertebra. Her misalignment, however, affected the trigeminal nerve. The nerve that affects Meniere's sufferers is the vestibulocochlear, which happens to report to the brainstem right next to the trigeminal, in a location which also happens to be just above the first vertebra. There is undoubtedly a connection there. After suffering with TN for a decade, after seeing numerous MD's, after being diagnosed with TN, and then diagnosed with atypical TN, after suffering through an excrutiating major surgery, after all that, we found ourselves still with her dealing with this horrible pain. It wasn't until investigating every alternative treatment that we could that a naturopath said something to us that made perfect sense. It was so simple and is what pointed me in the right direction. He used ordinary LOGIC. What he said was, "We've got to find out what is causing this pain." WOW! So simple, sol logical, yet none of her medical doctors for over a decade, not even the neurosurgeon who performed her surgery, ever uttered that we need to find out what is causing her pain! All the neurologists could do was to try and mask the pain with drugs. All the neurosurgeon could do was drill a hole in head on the whim that what was causing her pain was not what he found when he got in there. But this one guy, a naturopath, finally said something that made sense, "We've got to find out what is causing this pain." That made all the difference and I will never forget it. Unfortunately, he was not able to find the source of her pain. He did, however, introduce us to the idea of trigger point therapy. He would also place her in traction during her vists, after which she would find some short-lived relief. All those things were clues, clues that pointed me in the right direction to ultimately figure out what was causing her pain. Subsequently, and fortunately for me, her cause was the same as that of my Meniere's. I was able to apply the same knowledge and principles that helped her pain and stop my Meniere's.

LOGIC, as you say, Lee, specifically the logic of cause and effect, it appears to me, is the study discipline that could help folks the most to stop their Meniere's symptoms from progressing, the logic of cause and effect. Yes, you are right 100% on that. But because that is so important, vital as a matter of fact, then what I see missing from this discussion is an original cause for trigger points to begin with. If, hypothetically, we can get behind that cause and eradicate it, then wouldn't trigger point therapy be unnecessary? I have read references indicating that certain chemicals, toxins, find themselves into the tissues of the muscles and cause the trigger points. But some folks don't get trigger points. Logically then, trigger points are not just bad luck. The occurence of these toxins does not naturally happens to everyone. So there must be something else, something other than these chemicals, these toxins, that cause TP's to develop in the first place. Folks may say that I over think this. I do not believe that is true. For logic to progress, for us to exploit logic to our maximum benefit, the logical progression must have a beginning point, a Big Bang so to speak. Even the Big Bang had to have a cause, that cause most folks call "God." God is therefore the first chain in the link of logic that describes the cause of the universe. That seems as far as we can take that logic. But are we at the beginning of a chain of logic when we discover the effects of trigger points? Are trigger points the Big Bang associated with Meniere's? Is all that's left upstream of trigger points simply unexplainable, like God? I don't know. I'm asking. I'm not challenging; I'm exploring.

So with regard to stopping Meniere's, if we are going to depend on logic to help us determine the best course, how can we afford to stop short of understanding the preceding link in the trigger point chain, the entire cause and effect model?

BTW, someone may have given this site a plug before, but in studying behind the scenes here, I found what seems to be a pretty good reference for trigger point therapy. It's

http://www.pressurepointer.com/pain_reference_chart.htm

Hank

 

Assuming there is no underlying identifiable condition, I believe trigger points occur when we misuse and malnourish our body.

And in an earlier post you queried which came first: nerve impingement or trigger points. I see that almost always the muscles are compromised first (except when there is direct impact at C1 level, or a compression injury). Even a broken neck in whiplash only occurs when the force of impact is beyond the protective capacity of the muscles. And always least intrusive first.

Good site Hank. Thanks for that.

Lee

 

Well, that's fair enough. Thanks very much.
And I appreciate the work you do here.
Must be late Downunder.
Hank

 

Hi ~ Some of these posts are just too long for me to read. I have a hard time concentrating these days. Anyway, I agree that there is issues with my vertebra or years of eating poorly and not taking care of my body. But some of the back treatments are expensive and not covered by insurance. Eating healthy is costing me a fortune (still doing it though). Taking care of myself is difficult and expensive! Heidi

 

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parrothead,

i agree with diane--Lee's Body Logic would be a good resource for you.

AND...

if you have low back pain, the McKenzie method is worth looking into. his back exercises are the ONLY thing that helped me relieve some major back pain that i had (and i tried almost everything). the ideal thing is to get instruction from a physical therapist trained in McKenzie method, but you can also just follow the instructions in his book (the exercises are really simple, but you have to follow the instructions to the letter to see if they will work for you and to get best results):

7 Steps to a Pain-Free Life: How to Rapidly Relieve Back and Neck Pain by Robin McKenzie and Craig Kubey

http://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Life-Rapidly-Relieve/dp/0452282772/sr=8-1/qid=1169726223/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-9466176-8778236?ie=UTF8&s=books

McKenzie's earlier books (one on back pain and one on neck pain) are listed in the bibliography in Lee's book. 7 Steps to a Pain-Free Life combines both of the earlier books with some minor revisions.

here's a link where you can find a physical therapist trained in the McKenzie method:

http://www.mckenziemdt.org/index_us.cfm

 

Oh, Thanks!! See this thread is too long and I get confused easily. I'll check this out more. Thanks for the information! I need to stop spending so much money. Heidi

 

Lee, What did you focus on? was it posture?

I am not finished the book yet but I've been working on a shoulder slump and a head tip. I can tell you that for the past 5-6 years I have suffered the effects of a mild whiplash injury where it huts to look up and to the left. I have always been able to feel a mild pain there. It feels like a fresh injury or a an injury that refuses to heal. Anyway this morning I noticed that the pain is no longer there. I have to really crank my neck to feel it. Cool huh.

 

I had the same experience as Kim. The injections weren't painful, but he missed. I kept hoping that the anesthetic would somehow migrate to the rest of my body and make EVERYTHING not hurt anymore, but it was not to be....

 

milo,

that IS really cool!!

last year i had a huge amount of pain in my shoulder, chest, and arm. i had it for many months. i couldn't raise my hand above my shoulder; i could barely put on a shirt. diane introduced me to trigger points, and when i found them and started massaging them daily, within 2 weeks 75% of the pain was gone. it took a lot longer for the remaining pain to go, but i felt that it was like a miracle.

it's just so weird that this knowledge has been under the radar for so long.

 

Hi everyone

I've been reading Lee's book and am just starting Part 2. Lee, thank you, thank you! I'm very excited about the connections I'm making and what I'm learning.

And I want to say thank you to all of you on this thread who have found some relief and yet keep posting to help other people who are still suffering--Lee, Diane, ariapace, Kim, Hank, and I know I'm missing some, but consider yourselves thanked as well.

So I'm working on the SCM muscles, as Diane suggested, and it's so fascinating to see how if I press a certain point then the right side of forehead starts to ache. So I've started to explore, perhaps getting ahead of myself, and last night watching tv I found this sensitive point under my left collarbone--are those the scalenes? It was so interesting I spent some time on it and today it's very sore, where as other points I spent time on aren't. Why is that?

And most exciting--for a long time now, when I sat to do my meditation and took a deep breath, it felt as though my breath would get stuck under the collarbones--it couldn't continue. After just a couple of days of pressing and probing I feel more looseness there. The breath is still getting stuck, but now it's further back on my shoulder.

I'm seeing how I became separated from my body, and handed over all my power to the "professionals"--just as Lee describes, and it is very, very empowering to get to know my body again.

I can't wait to start work with all of you in January!

Nina

 

Nina,
I'm working on my breathing too. It's a big thing for me because I hold my breath when I'm stressed. I can't tell you how many times this week I've CAUGHT MYSELF. But catching myself is victory because that means I'm aware of it and that's the first step.....right? I've also caught myself clenching my jaw which I thought I had stopped but with the new job responsibilities I guess I took it up again without realizing it. Well I'm onto it now

I'm increasing AWARENESS and that's Step #1.

 

2nd appt with massage therapist today. Muscles looser.....still very sore though. She also mentioned deep breathing. When she worked a trigger point, I'd take a deep breath and let out slowly. She also gave my neck a work out, and tmj joint. Thought I would leave with headache, but actually felt quite good. Next appt. she will work on the inside tmj joint and show me out to do it myself. I guess I'm also clenching my jaw Kim. I'm working on increasing awareness

 

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I've been feeling better lately--I haven't had vertigo in a week, and for a couple of days I felt pretty good, muscle and joint wise, and tinnitus was low those same days. I think, I think, there's a connection.

 

Julie, I think most of us have or had the jaw clenching habit.

Today, I got to the part on nutrition. Dare I make the changes I need to make? OK, know that I've taken at least six college-level courses in nutrition and have a library of books on nutrition. Yet, I still eat foods to which I'm allergic. I know it sounds crazy but giving up dairy, wheat, eggs, peanuts, and carrots seems like such a penalty. I'm ok without the peanuts and carrots Yet, when I do this I feel better. I can get away with dairy a few times a week but the wheat and peanut butter make me sick. Plus, I really think I'm sensitive to more foods....these are just the ones that show up on the allergy tests. I know what I have to do and I know how to do it. I will do it but it will have to be a New Year's resolution. I'm not sensitive to gluten, only allergic to wheat. So I have plenty of alternatives. Just a matter of keeping it out of the house.

 

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Good for you Nina as that single realisation changes everything.

***

My next step is to send a few copies of this book to our key medical professionals. It will be interesting to see which ones are open to considering something developed and written by a teacher/sufferer (not 'one of their own'). They need to be alerted that the least intrusive - and most effective - option isn't currently being presented to sufferers. It may take a while, but I'll keep you informed.

By the way, I wonder if anyone else is concerned about the recent introduction and increasing use of the term 'Labby' on the forum (abreviation for the Labrynthectomy operation). According to marketing theory, 'word icons' are extremely persuasive (eg. A Labby can conjure up an image of a cute labrador puppy). This is why word icons are used so extensively in advertising. Although it's unintentional, I suspect the increasing trend to talk of 'Labbys' downplays their serious nature. The Labrythectomy and VNS - unlike operations where a surgeon helps an organ/part of the body perform better - are destructive procedures intended only to be used as a last resort.
Naturally I can't change how people refer to these, but I can state my concern.

Lee.