A Successful New Approach to Meniere's Disease -- Official John of Ohio regimen

Thanks John - I have been taking 3 x 1000mgs of l-lysine - one when I wake up, one mid morning and one mid afternoon. I am following all the pills to the letter and have also added vitamin B and vitamin D as suggested elsewhere.

Henry - I am interested in this as well. I wondered why I was absolutely fine (apart from tinnitus/hearing loss, but I have accepted these as standard!) for so long and then had the drop. And I've been fine since as well. It was literally one second where the world turned upside down for me. I had one drop attack before, but this was in the summer when I had just started on a low dose of SERC and had not yet started the JoH regime. Also, at that time I was in the midst of a long patch of feeling unwell.

 

John--I was wondering if you think that vitamin D deficiency and calcium deficiency might predispose one to neck/spinal misalignment? It seems it might also predispose one to not being able to fight off herpes viruses as well, doesn't it?

 

Hank,

No idea on what, how, or why this happened. The rapidity with which this happened, without any lead-up indications is a mystery.

But what else about this disease is new?

--John of Ohio

 

Vitamin D insufficiency, meaning a serum level of less than 30 ng/ml (50 to 80 ng/ml is the real target for best health), is not likely to be much of factor, if any at all. If it were, Meniere's disease would be as common as cancer, heart disease, and a host of others that adequate vitamin D can prevent. The vast majority of moderns in the Western world have very low levels of vitamin D in their blood. But not many with such otherwise inadequate vitamin D get Meniere's.

And it's wrong to presume, as so many doctors still do, that vitamin D's primary function deals with calcium and bone health. It's orders of magnitude beyond that now-ancient viewpoint, controlling the expression of hundreds of genes, most unrelated to calcium or bones in any direct way.

But I would presume that adequate vitamin D would help prevent or suppress herpes infections, merely by the vitamin's ability to hike innate immunity.

Now here would be a very interesting study. Is there any evidence that the frequency of Meniere's Disease is progressively related to latitude? This is the case for a number of diseases now known to be promoted by vitamin D insufficency. One of the best understood diseases for this is multiple sclerosis. In the UK, there are significantly larger frequencies of MS in Scotland compared to more southerly (and more sunny [something of a whopping overstatement]) England. Around the world, MS is more frequently found at high latitudes, where ample winter sunshine (and consequent vitamin D production in the skin) is reduced.

The same is also true for tuberculosis.

It would then be very interesting to learn if globally there were any Meniere's frequency discrepancies related to latitude. Do people at higher, and less sunny (less vitamin D) latitudes have higher rates of Meniere's? If so, the only plausible explanation would be that increased vitamin D at sunny lower latitudes maintains higher innate immunity, suppressing herpes viruses that get in the inner ear and cause MM symptoms.

--John of Ohio

 

But that's like saying, "vaccines aren't a factor in autism; if they were, everyone receiving vaccines would be autistic," or "Lipitor doesn't cause muscle weakness; if it did, everyone who took lipitor would have muscle weakness."

That's totally ignoring the fact that SOME people (those affected), maybe even quite a few people, might have a genetic predisposition or susceptibility or underlying disorder, that, together with vaccines or Lipitor (just as examples) would add up to autism or muscle weakness or heart attack.

Being a factor doesn't mean it's the only player in the game.

If calcium deficiency can cause brittle bones, and vitamin D deficiency can cause impaired immune function, would it be impossible that the resulting inflammation and brittle bones make spinal misalignment more likely, as well as have some kind of effect on the inner ear?

I like your idea of a latitude study; it seems like it ought to be very simple to do, and not even require much in the way of funding. Perhaps we can even do an uncontrolled casual poll here, and set up a thread/poll?

 

Taximom, I like the way you think. Your approach is exactly how folks get well.

 

Taximom5,

A crucial causative factor must explain the almost universal unilateral start of Meniere's. In almost every case, the disease is found in only one ear, and remains there for a long period before going bilateral.

If Meniere's were caused by some aberrant calcium physiology resulting from too little vitamin D, how could that occur in only one ear? The vitamin D deficient blood flowing through the left ear is exactly the same as that flowing through the other ear. If the blood and vitamin D deficiency are identical in both ears, how, then, does the disease occur on only one side at the start? The vitamin D and the calcium concentrations are identical in both.

There are only two realistic explanations for this. One — mine — is that a herpes virus has embedded itself in the tissues of the affected ear. This comports exactly with the physiology of herpes viruses, which do this exactly with other herpes diseases that are unilateral and localized, as with shingles and Bell’s palsy.

The other explanation is Henry Sullivan’s, that misalignment of cervical vertebrae impinge upon or otherwise disrupt nerves and their signals on one side of the head. That, too, accounts perfectly with Meniere’s one-sidedness.

The other explanation, that Meniere’s is caused by food and other allergies, has a great deal of evidential support, and I don’t discount the role of allergens whatsoever. But again, those allergens, just as with vitamin D, will circulate through the blood to both ears. If allergic Meniere’s were a pure allergy disease, both ears would be affected. But they aren’t. The only explanation for that (at least in my perspectives) is that a herpes virus has first entered the affected ear and caused or potentiated a localized inflammation that, in turn, has caused the localized allergic reaction. Stop the virus, and that stops the inflammation, and that stops the allergic reaction. Or, just stop eating food allergens, and that, too, stops the symptoms. (But the virus remains in the affected ear, so the vulnerability remains.)

–John of Ohio

 

John,

Excellent points as usual. Let me ask your opinion on something along these lines. The Herpes virus travels along nerves to various locations in the body. You make the point that the virus then infects the inner ear tissues. My question to you is whether any inflammation is necessarily the result of the virus infecting the actual tissues, or whether the resultant viral nerve infection, confined to the innervating nerve could result in the same symptoms. I ask this because in the case of uppercervical misalignments, I contend that the damage or inflammation in ear tissues results from a lack of innervation or commuunication between the brain and the inner ear tissues, causing damage, most likely due atrophic action from a decreased rate of cell replacement, noting the role the brain plays in that process. But wouldn't a viral infected nerve lose some of its innervation capabilities as well, resulting in the possibility that each of these pathologies might yield the same or very similar tissue damage? This would help explain a similarity between the symptomatologies of two different Meniere's sufferers, having virtually the same meniere's cycles, but for completely different causes. Just asking. What do you think?

 

Henry,

Gotta be honest. I have no idea. All of what you mentioned seems plausible, but I frankly don't know enough about several crucial points. First, just how does a herpes virus move along a nerve? Does it move by diffusion or other mechanical means inside the cytoplasm, or are virions (virus paricles) excreted and they move to new, more distant nerve cells within the gross nerve fiber by the motion of extracellular fluids, etc.?

And I don't have any knowledge or understanding of the actual physiochemical mechanisms of inflammation that the virus might (and I believe, does) cause from its residency in the nerve (or other inner ear tissue.

And lastly, does the herpes-infected nerve lose some or all of its ability to transmit normal nerve signals? In the case of Bell's palsy, a herpes viral disease, which I experienced first hand (but on the contralateral side of my face, away from the Meniere's ear), the virus does indeed stop nerve transmissions. The whole side of my face went numb and paralyzed for a week or so. Bell's almost always self-heals and full nerve function is restored, but as with Meniere's, it can come back later.

So yes, at least certain herpes nerve infections can profoundly disrupt normal nerve function.

As this entire thread has demonstrated, Meniere's is a difficult-to-nail, multi-factoral and multi-symptom and highly variable disease. In fact, it is not a disease. It's a collection of symptoms, which express themselves differently in each individual, at different times, in varying severities and durations. To us, with the disease, this is extremely frustrating. To the medical profession and medical researchers, this complicates everything about good research. The very first thing is to limit the variables, eventualy down to just one. That way, everyone can be certain that the one variable is or is not part of the problem. Here, we've gots multiple variables, for which none can be controlled.

That's why I think it's fruitless to spend time and effort on trying to discover any of the various causes of whatever constitutes Meniere's. The far better and useful thing, as you and I and a few others have done, is to discover treatment modalities that bring relief, regardless of their known or unknown mechanisms.

Frankly, the suggested mechanisms by which my regimen of supplements and vitamins brings relief to so many with Meniere's may be all wrong. Who should care? The key thing is that at least 80% who adhere to the regimen for a sufficient time (which keeps getting nudged to longer periods) get welcome or complete levels of symptomatic relief.

Nobody here is really looking for a detailed molecular or physiologic explanation of why they get dizzy, have drop attacks, have a bloated ear, can't think straight, or have loud tinnitus. All anyone wants (except the academic medical researchers) is symptomatic relief. There's more of that on this board than in many medical offices, especially for those for whom the standard low salt/diurectic and gent injection stuff fails to work.

--John of Ohio

 

Thanks, John. You answered my question. And by your experience with Bell's Palsy, as I suspected, and even suggested earlier to Dr. Brown, my feeling is that there may be parallel causes, such as the two you and I write about, which yield the same resultant symptoms, which could act as 'surrogates' in each other's place and no one would know the difference. Because the symptoms would be similar, one would never know which one caused the 8th cranial nerve to shut down until one tried treatments for each, the point being that either theory points to a break down of the proper communication between the brain and the inner ear tissues as the final mechanism leading to the onset of symptoms. But that break down could be because of 8th cranial nerve impingement, brain stem compression, or attack by the herpes virus on the nerve. Your point concerning why care as long as long as the symptoms are managed is a good one. But in my thinking it would help to know each possible cause, because some causes, such as viral, might be treatable, whereas others, say nerve impingement, are actually curable, depending upon whether the tissues in question are reparable.

This theory also helps to explain why it is that in either case, mechanical nerve and brain stem considerations, or viral attack on the nerve, recovery may be immediate or it may take a considerable time. People who get tired of waiting and are ready to give up on either treatment would be wise to realize that, for either cause and case, the major factor in recovery time would be the extent that damage to tissues (a) has occurred, and (b) is even reparable after proper communication is restored to the brain. This explains why some folks under each treatment recover quickly, while others take time. I believe having a proper expectation might make a large difference in whether someone ultimately treats his or her condition successfully.

Thanks very much for your thoughts on that. As a result, I feel further on in this now than I did when I woke up this morning.

Hank

 

So if there are parallel causes, each with the same result, wouldn't the best course of action be to address both of them simultaneously, even if it's unknown whether the patient suffers from both, one, or even neither?

 

Then you would never know. The curiosity would kill me.

 

I guess I was thinking in terms of
1) eliminating the cause (and therefore the symptoms) as quickly as possible and
2) my conviction that most of us have many or all of the parallel things going on anyway--sure, addressing one single thing might relieve the symptoms, but the other issues might still be causing problems, even if they might not be adding up to Meniere's symptoms. They might be contributing to brain fog, or forgetfulness, or ALzheimer's, or some other neuro problems.

I'd rather work backwards--take care of all of the possibilities, then back off one by one. But that's assuming NO side effects. If we were talking standard medical care, it would be a whole different ball game.

 

Hi, This is Hongchun from China. I found this site a couple weeks ago and found that I have the very similar symptoms with menieres.

After that I came to see the ENT to ask him to give me some diagnosis. Then I asked him if I have MN or not. He said might be. I was so happy that after almost 20 years I have know what kind of disease I have(before that I was always wrong diagnosed so I hate to see a doctor). I'm only 28 years old and got this very very young when I was a kid. My grandmother and my father have the similar symptoms too.

Thanks to the site, I'm not my self alone now, very awkward when got this kind of diease. I'm vertigo and tinnitus almost all of the time(24/7) which I am almost accustomed to it.

I also found a good application on App store called 'iTinnitus Solutions'. I purchased it and installed on my IPhone, it really works, after 20 minutes to hear inhibit tinnitus, I can get about a hour relax which can help me to sleep better. People who got sleep problem can have a try with this tool, only 5 bucks, worth it!! Here is the link to iTinnitus:
http://www.innerearsolutions.com/Home.html

I have read John's Regimen and have ordered the 8 items from vitamin shoppe and will be a week or so to ship to China. I will update here again if I have the symptoms reduces. Congratulations that John and many folks that get symptoms eliminated, and thanks John, that encouraged me alot!!

As Vertigoheel, I searched on Google and found a lot of vendors sell it, which site to buy is good could you suggest me one?

My little son is about 3 years old now, and always not good, not sleeping well and also have imbalance when walking, I'd like to know if is this disease easily to inherit to him?

PS. The link to John's Meniere’s Regimen on first post of this thread is not the latest, can Solari just help to edit the post to keep this updated?

 

Welcome Johnyz. Here is the link to the current version of the JOH regimen:

www.menieresresources.org/Resources/HomePage?action=download&upname=ANewApproachToMenieresDisease-TheJohnOfOhioRegimenJan2010.pdf

For Vertigoheel, I buy Cocculus Compositum tablets from iherb.com the have shipped international to me in the past.

Good luck

 

Re: A Successful New Approach to Meniere's Disease -- Official John of Ohio regi

Thanks for the infomation,phildsc. I will buy this today to have a try.

Have a nice day there.

Hongchun

 

Forgot to say "Nee Hao" one of the few Mandarin expressions I remember. (The others are mostly vulgar. :

 

First post, thanks for some good info. The ginko and vinpocitine are not recommended for any one with bleeding disorders (me). Any other suggestions? Even 1/2 a baby aspirin a day for a few days in a row causes bleeding. I don't have a true diagnosis of Meniere's yet but it is at the top of the list. Thanks again.

 

Stormrider,

Could you point me to any reference that claims vinpocetine can complicate bleeding disorders. I have searched the literature on this molecule and have found no such cautions. I would be eager to learn of any bleeding or anticoagulent considerations with the use of vinpocetine.

Ginko is well known as an anticoagulent, but I'm not aware of this being a consideration with vinpocetine.

--John of Ohio

 

http://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetContent.aspx?token=e0498803-7f62-4563-8d47-5fe33da65dd4&chunkiid=21841

http://www.bidmc.org/YourHealth/HealthResearchJournals.aspx?ChunkID=21841

Above are the first 2 links when I Googled your inquiry on bleeding problems. I know when I had my 2 surgeries last year I was told I had to stop taking it 2 weeks before the surgery.