A Must Read For Those Tired of Having NUCCA Sold As The Cure for Everything

Cheese, if I had said this, "So yes, cancer can be cured, and in many if not most early cases, cured by combinations of radioactive therapy," would that not be a true statement? Yes, cancer can be cured. And yes, Meniere's can be cured. I do not indicate or pretend that it will be cured in all cases, but yes it can be cured and I and many former Meniere's sufferers are living proof. I believe you infer much more from my statement that my statement necessarily implies. If you go back through the totality of what I have written on this forum, you will see nowhere that I present chiropractic as an end all cure for everyone. I believe it will help in most cases if caught early. I state my beliefs and I give reasons for my beliefs. I do not remain anonymous, I tell eveyone on this forum who I am. I spend no time trashing a remedy offerred to members to the forum. Who would I be to inject myself into a conversation between two others here, one who has plainly asked a question and another, who with no other motive than to try and help, has offerred the best answer that he or she can muster?

I sense that you are endeavoring to quiet the rhetoric at this point. I respect that and I welcome that. I have not heard the same from Nassman.

PLease understand that I am not going anywhere. I presume the folks who trash my opinions are not either. I am glad to hear criticisms. I take constructive criticisms calmly and many times thank the other member for bringing their criticism to me. But this thread is much more than criticism. This thread is trashing, my friend. Many of you folks, especially Nassman, have stepped over the line. And to what good end? There is no good to come to anyone on this forum by preventing him or her from understanding more options available to them.

The idea that I am somehow selling something is pure self-serving fabrication. I have nothing to sell. That characterization, which is the title of this thread, one that you and several others have taken Nassman's side in defending, is exagerrated to the point of abject dishonesty. Every post in this thread that furthers Nassman's thesis here is just one more point that furthers dishonesty. I am glad to be challenged, but challenged honestly.

Since we are changing the tone of this thread, perhaps we can derive some good from it yet. If you don't mind, Cheese, allow me here to put the shoe on the other foot. Please you and everyone who has offered support for Nassman's thesis in this thread, tell us your story. Tell the forum what your individual case is, what your symptoms and diagnosis are, and what you have done to successfully remedy your condition. I think we would all interested to read some success stories from those who are the most adamantly against chiropractic as a viable alternative for folks to consider. You see, I am one of the few folks at this forum who has absolutely nothing to gain here. I am cured. I no longer have this beast. I have given my testimony and will give it again when someone asks a question if my testimony might be helpful. So why don't we pause this thread just long enough for you folks who are so adamant against chiropractic to fill us in on what rememdies you have been successful with. And I think it would be good to start with Nassman. Nassman, buddy, tell us your story. What is your condition and what did you do to remedy your problems? I think a lot of members would like to read something constructive from you rather than destructive as this thread has been so far.

Sincerely,

Hank Sullivan

 

I know this thread pisses a lot of people off, but ah well .......It is a hesitant bump though

Of course it's true. It has been proven time and time again through scans and blood work.

Applying that logic to Meniere's disease is borderline deluded though.

There is not a smidgen of evidence that ANYTHING has cured ANY meniere's patient. Spontaneous remission is not uncommon for the disease, and sometimes it may last forever. So considering that the disease process is still not fully understood, there can be no way to say it's cured. For something to be cured, you have to first prove the cause. There may be spontaneous remission periods, but there is zero evidence to explain how and why this occurs.

No offence, Hank, but a PDF theory drawn up by an engineer is not solid evidence of a cause. Have you ever cut open a patients head and witnessed 1st hand how the organ is placed? Have you ever examined a temporal bone??? ...I know I haven't. I'd be pretty certain that a qualified surgeon, or biochemist, who understands the ear on a molecular level could tear the theory to shreds.

You say "meniere's can be cured" like you know the cause. Without sounding too rude, quite simply, you don't. No one does.

The crux of it is, I'd be more inclined to trust the heavily educated minds of the biochemists and surgeons who cut this stuff open on a daily basis, than to listen to a nucca "doctor" with limited education, limited experience, and limited molecular knowledge. I'd also hope that most people could see that putting huge amounts of trust into these unproven treatments might be clutching at straws.

Granted science isn't perfect ...but jeeezus ...If science isn't perfect, what does that make NUCCA ? ....an absolute rabble? a laughing stock?

I guess the bottom line is this though. Testimony isn't evidence. In saying that, I don't believe that testimonies should be censored, or silenced, but they shouldn't be passed as some kind of factual evidence like they have been on here over the past couple of months.

Maybe this thread is trashing nucca .....but maybe nucca is such a dubious art that it requires a heavy critique.

A lot of these guys/women carry the "Dr" tag. A lot of people who know no better might automatically think that that equates to rock-solid science which is worthy of their financial "donation". You only have to flick back a few pages to see one of these "doctors" claim that she can heal without touching .....Sorry to swear, but what the fuk?!

As for the salesman pitch ....I guess that frustration stems from what appears to be force feeding. That's how i see it though, maybe nassman and others see it different.


Anyway ...I really am trying to play the ball and not the man ....The ball being Nucca. Sorry if it comes across as personal attacks, it's not my goal to demoralize you or anyone on this forum.

 

If you are going to resort to accusations, please provide word-for-word proof that I have done this to you.

Again, show me where I have ever said you claim to be "selling" something for monetary gain. Perhaps, you have misunderstood the use of the word "Sold" in the title of this thread.

DESTRUCTIVE?!?!?!?! So let me get this straight. I provide a well researched, well referenced, and well written article that happens to not coincide with what your beliefs on NUCCA are, and that is destructive?

Hmmm....ok. Point taken. It is posts like these that really make me think what the heck I am doing on a forum where people cannot post rebuttals to people's theories....

 

Nassman, I believe that is destructive; that you have appointed yourself and I suppose Cheese as guardians over the safety and well-being of any new member to this site who has come here for help. I cannot understand that. And all the while you work feverishly to protect someone new here from investigating chiropractic for themselves, you bat no eye as you read the post of someone who has clearly not exhausted all their non-invasive options, yet is scheduling to have a hole cut into the side of his or her head. I do not know what you could say that would make me understand what motivates that point of view. Now, granted, I'm sure that there may be something about your life long experience that I am not privy to, which if I understood would help me to see why you and I guess Cheese have taken on the role of protector of the Newbie's. If you can shed light on that for me, perhaps my perception could be changed. I truly want to understand.

You realize as I do that some folks come to this site just for comfort, to commiserate, for empathy. I think that is a valid and useful function for this site to perform. Yet please also realize that some folks come here to learn more about the options that are available to them, options that have worked in the past for other people and might very well work for them. To work to stand in the way of people in that last category I believe is plenty destructive and I do not understand it. Of course, I am not walking in your shoes, nor Cheese's, nor anyone else'.

Beyond that, I still have not heard an answer to my question from yesterday. You guys are certainly veterans of the malady this forum is designed to discuss. So please you two, give us something from your experiences that could possibly help someone out there, rather than just prevent them from investigation possibilities on there own. Tell us your stories. What can you tell us that might be of aid to someone who has come here, not just for comfort but for help to remedy their situation? Give us the benefit of the experience of what you have tried; what has worked for you; what has not worked for you. Give us something positive, rather than just anecdotal evidence that merely attempts to disprove the real life experience to which I testify, an experience that I have attempted to make sense of and offer for others to judge.

Please.

Hank

 

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Bingo you win the prize!

 

Tell you what fellows, you don't have to answer my last post. Let's just make a deal here. I will be more subtle and you be more tolerant of the views of others. Deal?

Hank

 

What bothered me about all these posts was the definitive, strong, overbearing tone of them. There are very strong personalities here and they are coming on very strong and very assertive.

Well, Meniere's is just not that kind of topic. There are so many causes of it, so many ways to relieve symptoms, so many degrees of how it hits you. No single treatment works for even 50% of the people, though diuretics seems a first course of action by the ENT's.

The tone of the chiropractic thread seemed almost abusive, you know the picture of a guy pounding his opinion into you. It doesn't matter the intention, but that's what is sounded like. That's what made me ignore them after a short time. I'm not sure the newbies would be able to get past that and look at all the other wealth of info we have to offer.

This forum has had this problem many times in the 2.5 years I've been posting. The strong personality types create conflict, sending casualties flying away. Sooner or later Ray steps in. Too bad they don't really listen and just button up.

 

Pardonme,

I think your post says it all, what about the newbies?

 

Good post Pardonme . Reminds me of The Dog Whisperer, Ceasar Milan, and the way he trains unruly animals. He has to train the humans first because they are the end result of their animals behavior. Sometimes the humans "just don't get it" that drama then reward gets you nowhere and rewards for bad behavior unbenownst to the human for the behavior just creates a vicious cycle that never ends.

Oh, and i truly do not like chiros, anyone snapping my neck is out the question but thats just my 3cents. I've tried 2 of them, both made me scream in fear. My intuition told me to run and i did. I too have the what Sarita mentioned in another post, the backware C in my spine and funtion fine with my exercise and massage and yoga techniques. Trigger point therapy on my own from the book Pardome recommended. I think it boils down to stress/anxiety and it all surfaces in different areas, and this post is probably sending a few into some spins because of the such "high" emotions battling to win nothing there is to win!

 

Hank,

I have to tip my hat to you for your last post, I think what you have just asked for is a good way to resolve this issue :-X

 

One thing that is interesting to me is that it doesn't appear that Ray intended this to be a medical/technical discussion board. Quote from near the bottom of the homepage of menieres.org:

"There's many other websites out there that provide excellent information on the technical and medical aspects of Meniere's Disease -- plenty of them (see links above). So, instead of duplicating efforts, ours go towards providing a support environment to help you cope with Meniere's Disease now that you know you have it."

Just found that and thought it was interesting.

 

I think everyone should have respect for one another and differing view points. I have chosen the majority of the time to :-X in regards to this subject ..... seems to be getting no where and I don't care for arguing, bickering back and forth; too stressful. Now Hug and Make Up Lets All Be Friends ;D :-* :-* ......

Next Subject ;D ;D