A Must Read For Those Tired of Having NUCCA Sold As The Cure for Everything

For those, who like me, like to study both sides of an argument, please read this excellent report. It is long but it sheds light on the "practices" of chriropractors and their sometimes borderline fraudulent claims. It is also the source of the quote I have posted below:


Chiropractors claim that subluxations, or partial displacements, of the vertebrae cause a perturbation of the distribution of nervous impulses to tissues and cells. Neurophysiologists have developed methods of recording the passage of impulses in nerves. Exceptionally sensitive apparatus is available to anyone wishing to use it. No scientific study has ever been published on the subject by a chiropractor. No chiropractor ever defined, either quantitatively or qualitatively, what chiropractic means by perturbation of nervous impulses. Is it their number, their amplitude, their frequency, or their wave patterns which are affected? All of these qualities can be identified, recorded, and studied. It is no longer permissible to accept empirical statements. Proof should have preceded practical application. With the first point untenable, the rest crumbles [2].


http://www.chirobase.org/01General/skeptic.html

 

A part of me agrees with this completely. A large part of me! Yet a small voice says: "Try it! If it helps - great. If not - it cost you a few bucks and you move on!"

But all of me definitely agrees there's a woeful lack of a real hard scientific data in the chiro world. Their research all sounds very scientific but on a closer look it's hollow

Good post, Nas!

George

 

I am glad that I'm not the only one tired of hearing about it. I have tried it and to be honest it didn't help me on little bit. It just cost more money.

I read the article and I agree completely with what it says. There is not any real scientific data. Chiropactors claim they can cure just about anything. I find that hard to believe and they can't back it up either. At least not in English.

Thanks for the post Nas!

 

Excellent article. Thanks for that.

sounds like nucca and meniere's to me

lol ....thats classic. And that is my biggest beef with it all. If it works like they say it does, why aren't they investing time, money, and effort into trying to get their "beliefs" etched into scientific textbooks.


Patient loyalty really is an important factor in all of this IMO. I saw a chiro weekly/bi-weekly for 2 solid years, at $40 a week. I saw no improvement, but I kept going back for more. Am I a masochistt?, or was the chiro just exceptionally good at forming a certain bond with his patients? ......whenever I would say i felt particularly bad that week, he would say, "no wonder ...your neck is way more out than it was last week" ..........coincidence, or just utter bullshit? ....

 

Surely you mean masochist - unless you were giving each other mutual adjustments!

George

 

Boy, nothing biased in the quotes Cheese pulled from the scientific paper you refer to. Here it is for me, net, net, net (bottom line).

I saw three ENTS, an otoneurologist and a neurologist, and I was still spinning and puking eight to 12 hours a pop three times a week. My life was ruined. They treated the symptoms, or not, telling me to live with it.

I saw a nucca based on what I read here. Things got worse for a few days then better and better, much less intense down to only a rocking motion and only for one hour, no throwing up. I added deep tissue massage. Then non-gluten diet. Was it 'coincidental remission' - maybe - just like others have gotten 'coincidental remission' from VNS and shunt surgery etc. I don't think it was coincidental because it happened at the same exact time, things actually got worse for a few days meaning there was something at play, and it would have to be coincidental for all the others who have seen relief and that's a lot of 'coincidence'.

I have now gone fifteen months without a full blown vertigo attack.

Pardonme and Lee are right. This is less about "nucca/no nucca", "cure/no cure", "Meniere's/not Meniere's" and more about finding your own way toward wellness. And that will differ for everyone. Some will get relief from nucca for some strange reason, some won't for some strange reason. I guess the only thing I can do is present my own story since I don't hold the key for others and let them read and decide for themselves. But I would sure hate to convince someone not to seek help in an area just because I didn't get help when, in fact, others have and they just may have gotten relief, for some odd reason, from this horrible horrible beast.

SpinininOhio

 

;D haha...oops ...masochist it is. He wasn't that good ...he also wasn't a she

 

Spinnin' the 1st one i quoted is admittedly a bit narky in tone ....but in my experience it's not too far off the mark. Picking up a pamphlet from your local chiro will back up the quote when you see the ridiculous lengthy list of problems they believe they can "heal"

The 2nd quote is bulletproof IMO.

In saying that though, i'm glad it worked for you. Even if it was a placebo induced remission, which i'm not guaranteeing that it was, it's better than no remission at all.

 

I absolutely agree with spinnin and pardonme.

Almost daily there are posts about antidepressant and nucca and do we really have Meniere's.
Know what? What purposes do these ripping to shreds of certain things have?. I am a middle aged lady and a health care practioner for 27 years. I know alot about drugs and therapies. I know antidpressants. very well and that they did work for me and may work for others. To quote a bunch of studies and spout facts is to kill hope for some frantic sometimes hopeless at the time people trying to deal with something very hard to deal with.
I have never heard what has worked/not worked for Nassman or Cheese. Please enlighten us.
What shape are you in? the thing about the internet is that you never know what exactly a situation is of a person seeking help. What emotional state they are in--or do you know???
I dont think I have classic Meniere's. I dont think I will ever try Nucca. I know that I was diagnosed by a an Md in the statre of Pennsylvania as being clinically depressed and antidepressants did the job they were meant to do. I ought to know.
Yes, more about wellness and let everyone decide for themselves

 

Good post, Carol! Obviously deeply felt and I agree with what you're saying re: AD's. They can be a godsend in the right circumstances. And when you're compelled to reach for them, it's almost always the right circumstances, notwithstanding the few meathead doctors who overprescribe them.

George

 

play the ball and not the man ....if you don't like me thats fine. But at least read the information that is being put forward, instead of just coming to your own pre-conceived outcomes based on what you might think of the poster

And what are you on about, anti-depressants have absolutely nothing to do with this. Antidepressants have actually been proven to be successful through rigorous placebo controlled testing. Just how effective is another debate. But as for chiropractic ......It's a lot of fluff and not much substance. Show me substance and I will retract.

And is displaying both sides of an argument destroying hope?, or just doing exactly that, displaying both sides of the argument?. Hope without evidence, can be fraudulent, and just as damaging.

I could say that banging my head against a wall cured my meniere's. But accepting my phenomenon would be stupid, and harmful, without asking the million dollar question ...which is "how and why?"


It's like the Anti-viral theory .....It's not one that I "want" to believe in .....but the finding of herpes simplex virus in randomized MMvsNon-MM temporal bones at a ratio of 16:2 is a finding that is hard to ignore. It's nothing earth shattering, but it's there for all to see. It's published.

I'm waiting for the chiropractic association to release something that is "hard to ignore" .......The fact is that the broader medical community has been waiting for 100 years, so I won't hold my breathe.

 

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I was given a drug to treat depression and it made me a diabetic.There is no cure for alot of illnesses out there.I abused my body over the years and am paying for it now.Going to a Chiropractor is helping with the ackes and pains that medicines are not touching.Just in a month my back is feeling better now not hurting that bad,but am limmited on how long I can stand before I start hurting in the lower lumbard and the legs.I have 2 herniated disk that makes me hurt every day.The meds that I'm on only takes care of so much of it.I'm willing to try anything to help with the pain.If it works it works if not then o'well at least I tried something.The one thing I said that going to a Chiropractor wasn't a cure.It will help with the symtems.My menieres has been under control for over 2 years now and I'm not going for that reason.If you don't know some ones Illenesses don't bash on them saying that a treatment is not going to work for them when you it didn't work for you.Cause I hear that alot here on this forum.Hear the good and the bad on here.I don't care how much information any one can show on not to trying a treatment I'm going to give it a try to see if it will help me.I tried 3 Epidural shots in my lower back and nothing when other people had luck with it.I also tried another one which I can't remember the name of it.Then I tried nucleoplasty how ever you spell that word and got alot of releif out of it.So say what you want cause I'm the one that has to live with it.

 

I agree with you pardonme to the point that if something makes you "feel" better, who cares at what cost

But I have massive problems with financially supporting industries that are selling a dud, and dishonest product.

The more I read about NUCCA, the more I think that it's an absolute fraudulent joke. The more I read about it, the more certain I am that it's a placebo, and an expensive one at that.

If our C1 atlas was so easily manipulated with such a minimal amount of force, we would all be quadriplegics. I'd love to hear "Dr Heidi's" response to that very basic retort.

What about this little gem from fully board certified NUCCA chiro, "Dr" Johanna M Hoeller. She claims she CAN ADJUST WITHOUT EVEN TOUCHING THE PATIENT .......read it here, Touchless chiro fraud .....there are countless links about this fraudster if you know where to look.

The video that shows her "touchless" method has been removed from her website ...I wonder why?! ...maybe because it's a joke, and she knows it.

She is seen to be making popping sounds with her wrists.

It angers me that these total and utter bullshit artists are able to con the sick out of their money .....Especially considering that the sick are usually the ones with the least amount of cash, due to the inability to work.

Here is great little insight into what goes on at chiro school Chiropractic Education - by John Badanes, DC, PharmD

To be honest it sickens me how some of thee people carry the tag of "doctor" .....IMO they're anything but
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Some mightn't like what I post, but i'm honestly not doing it out of malice. I have a knack for researching and enjoy it quite a lot. I'm only trying to help in my own unique way. Once you start peeling back the layers of things, it can sometimes be startling what you find out. Don't take my word for it though, find out for yourself. The biggest gift you can give yourself is the gift of knowledge.

 

bryant, sorry to hear the AD gave you diabetes, that's terrible. I wonder if it was zyprexa? I was taking it, but stopped as soon as i found out one of it's side effects was insulin dependant diabetes.

 

thanks for posting the article - will read it after I get back from my chiro appointment this morning. I can't beleive how much I've improved since I started the treatment.

rosie

 

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This discussion of NUCCA/not NUCCA Chiro/no Chiro etc is such a microcosm of what happens in the world as far as opposing ideas go.
Seems like neither side will give in until it has won.

How about we resolve this conflict by either following the Live and Let Live motto or come up with some common ground?

These threads have already provoked anger, sarcasm, intolerance, stress etc. in some of the posters who are contributing so avidly to this topic not to mention the time spent/wasted researching the Internet to dig out articles that are pro or against the subject.

Some chiros are total quacks, yeah I agree. In fact one of those quack chiros destroyed my neck years ago but I don't crap on the community of chiros. I'm sure there are those who are very good at what they do.

I've had awful experiences with allopathic doctors too. Take my recent vision test. 20/20 vision. Did the same test a year ago with another doc and vision was 20/20 also. Yet three years ago I went to a fancy optometrist in a fancy office who after extensive eye testing decided I was astigmatic and near sighted and told me to get glasses from her adjacent shop, which I did.
Never felt dizzier for that whole year I wore those glasses until my next visit where I was asked, "Why are you wearing glasses? Your vision is perfect!"

My point is that entire categories of practitioners cannot be dismissed because quacks exist everywhere.

Ultimately what counts is how we FEEL with our symptoms after we undergo the suggested treatment and enhance it with lifestyle changes. Why bother so much with the empirical, theoretical or pragmatic aspects of it all!

Research is key so research whatever road you've decided fits for you and let others do the same for themselves...and you need to be okay with them not having chosen your same road and that seems to be the hardest part in these threads.

Returning to the original question...Is NUCCA a cure all for everything? NO! But neither are antibiotics yet so many allopathic doctors prescribe them for everything under the sun and so many of us take them without questioning.

 

People like cheese and I are merely trying to prevent a desperate newbie on here who is so down and out due to their vertigo from visiting a chiro, and perhaps, enduring a damaged neck as you experienced. Maybe the next person on here that has damaging treatment from a NUCCA practicioner or a chiro wont be as lucky as you and have permanenet damage that is irreversible.

That is my sole mission here. Plain and simple.

 

I don't think you can prevent anyone from anything but I do appreciate the fact that you are providing the other side of things to help a newbie make an informed choice. By the same token, allow those who have had positive experiences to do the same because this after all is the purpose of the forum. Sharing our info and experiences so that those who have been newly diagnosed can make informed choices.