vitamin d

Discussion in 'Your Living Room' started by jaypr, Dec 14, 2012.

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  1. Angelea

    Angelea New Member

    I don't have time to read through each and every study linked here or related to vitamin D (I am actually helping my 5th grade twins with their science project posters at the moment, so am knee-deep in my own scientific investigations and reporting), but a cursory glance at the studies you linked were in no way conclusive. The prostate study in particular was so small in size that it could in no way produce any kind of conclusive results and it wasn't even looking at the whether it decreased or increased symptoms - it was only studying safety and PSA levels of the men. The researchers concluded that vitamin D in the dose studied "appeared" to be safe and there was NO change in PSA levels. That's wonderful that some of the men felt better, but it did not decrease their PSA suggesting there was no change in the actual cancer itself.

    My point here is that there are a ton of really bad studies out there and most anyway end up concluding that "more study is necessary" - not that the evidence is overwhelmingly positive. I am well aware of the excitement around vitamin D and many common cancers. Most oncologists I work with put their patients on routine vitamin D supplementation. Are their outcomes better?? I don't know. I do know I still see those people linger, suffer, and die.

    I appreciate all the reading you've done on the subject, nonetheless I still feel strongly that there is no vitamin or mineral supplement that is without potential for harm in certain people, under certain circumstances, and with certain conditions. Might a daily vit D supplement benefit people at a public health level - maybe. But all the experts (doctors, dietitians, scientists) I have heard speak on the subject still believe nothing regarding vitamin D is conclusive.

    On another, similar, topic - I spent all of last evening communicating with one of my girlfriends who had taken a slow-release niacin pill yesterday on the advice of her GI doctor. She had a major reaction that went well beyond "flushing". She wouldn't go to the ER, even though she was having difficulty breathing and her face had swelled up considerably, but she did take Benadryl which eventually improved her condition. What did she react to? Hard to say. The niacin itself? A binder, a contaminant? No one will ever know...
  2. Angelea

    Angelea New Member

    I should add that most, but not all, of the oncologists I work with recommend vitamin D. Those that don't feel the evidence is not yet strong enough to recommend it to their patients.

    You will be happy to know that we do see a lot of serum vit D results these days and when they are low, we treat them. I've yet to have a patient tell me how great they feel when their levels come back up and I certainly don't see it curing anyone of advanced disease.

    Take vitamin D if you'd like. It's probably safe, just know that the science is not conclusive and there are still a lot questions being studied. I just wish, JOH, you'd be a little more cautious and not so emphatic about all of this.

    I'm done - I have to get back to the effects of sugar and salt solutions on pinto bean germination and the effects of vitamin E oil (gasp!) on the aging process of rose petals. Good stuff here!
  3. Irelandman

    Irelandman Guest

    Angelea, I must say it is very refreshing to hear the arguement against vitamins/minerals/supplements and their claims, rather than continually hearing that vitamins/minerals and lack of them cause all diseases, vitamins and supplements diminish menieres symptoms etc.
    I am sure vitamins are good for you. I religiously took JOH 3 years ago along with a host of other reccommended vitamins in the hope of being one of the 87% who go on to have no menieres symptoms. I reccommended JOH to other menieres sufferers who also religiously followed it.
    Unfortunatly, no one including me found any benefit at all.
    3 months ago I stopped all vitamins/minerals and supplements and I am glad to report I am feeling much much better.
  4. Intrepid

    Intrepid New Member

    I'm not a mega doser but I do believe that since most people eat rather poorly, they are mineral and vitamin deficient. This can lead to a host of conditions.
  5. Angelea

    Angelea New Member

    True. But our bodies have evolved over time to digest and metabolize nutrients from food, not from supplements. While supps can and do reverse deficiencies, normal levels should be maintained through whole foods.

    In general what we are talking about here are not deficiencies, i.e. signs and symptoms that will occur WITHOUT FAIL when levels fall below a certain amount, such as scurvy, beri beri, Werneicke's encephalopathy, pernicious anemia, etc. and are then reversed WITHOUT FAIL when adequate needs are met. We are talking about disease prevention and treatment of chronic diseases/conditions and the potential therapeutic effects of vitamins and minerals taken in amounts not found in nature.

    Big, big difference.
  6. Intrepid

    Intrepid New Member

    It depends.

    In my case, for example, the neuro wanted to put me on amitripti-something for migraine prevention. I didn't want it. I asked her if I could take magnesium citrate instead and see if that would help. I know she wasn't happy about it but she supported my choice and we worked out a therapeutic dosage. MC works for me. I don't want drugs in my system, if I can help it, and there was NO WAY I could eat enough foods on a daily basis to meet my mag requirement naturally.
  7. Angelea

    Angelea New Member

    Exactly. You are using Mg at a therapeutic dose. It doesn't mean you had a deficiency. If you Google the signs and symptoms of true Mg deficiency, you probably didn't have those. Not everyone with low Mg has migraines and not everyone with migraines benefits from Mg.

    Many, many things can be taken in therapeutic doses to produce an effect (good and/or bad). IV Mg is also used to stop premature labor.

    The important thing to remember is that taking ANYTHING in therapeutic doses, whether it is classified as a drug or not, has the same potential for undesirable side effects. The difference is in the chemical pathway, as well as the conditions under which it is produced and regulated. Drugs production is regulated and monitored, supplement production is not. Sometimes drugs are far safer and more beneficial than therapeutic doses of "natural" substances. There should be no false sense of safety or security when taking a supplement over a drug.
  8. Intrepid

    Intrepid New Member

    In all fairness, the same caution needs to be extended towards pharmaceutical products too, The damage caused by drugs, I think, can be far greater than that caused by supps. Even something as simple as statins are wreaking havoc on many people's bodies causing miserable side effects. These are prescribed by doctors in therapeutic doses.

    It's safe to say that nothing is really safe so it's always better to exercise caution regardless of what the origin of the product is.
  9. June-

    June- New Member

    But doesnt it have to pass through the skin and wouldnt it pass through lower levels of pgiment more quickly? Otherwise it seems to me all fair skinned people would always be deficient. They would have to choose between skin cancer and adequate vit d. Evolution is smarter than that.
  10. jaypr

    jaypr New Member

    If it was amitriptylene that you refused Intrepid, you did well. I took it for back pain for a few days. It was awful, it made me very anxious which is something I never suffer from. I felt like I was trapped in my own body. I had to stop taking it.
  11. Intrepid

    Intrepid New Member

    Yes, that was it. I have the prescription but chose to not have it filled.
  12. Angelea

    Angelea New Member

    Absolutely. Many people take red rice yeast instead of statins because it is "natural". Well it behaves the same way as statins do in the body and can produce the same side effects as statins. On top of it, you cannot be sure it is pure or that it contains the dose stated on the label.

    Anything taken at a high enough dose to produce a desired result not only has the potential for unwanted side effects, but everything we take - whether a drug or a supplement comes in contact with all cells of our body, not just the ones we are wanting to treat. Might be great on one subset of cells while wreaking havoc on another.

    I take the random supp here and there. Mg and Calcium for twitchy legs at night, vitamin D from time to time,, and probably a few others. But I think I have realistic expectations for what they can do for me and I'd never take any supplement every single day for years on end for all the reasons I've cited on this and other threads.
  13. Angelea

    Angelea New Member

    Many people take amitriptylene with good results. It's another example of a drug (or supplement) that might work well for one person, but cause problems for another. Drugs and supplements are not necessarily different from each other other than in the way they are manufactured, studied, tracked, and regulated.
  14. Intrepid

    Intrepid New Member

    We're on the same page with this issue, A :)
  15. Angelea

    Angelea New Member

    Yes, I know. ;-)
  16. shartsoe

    shartsoe New Member

    For awhile, whenever I went to the dr. for my fatigue, they would hand me a prescription for anti-depressants. The feelings you describer here perfectly match my feelings while taking those drugs. Worse, I thought I would jump out of my own skin. I realize that there are people for whom anti-depressants are a God send. For me, they were nothing short of a nightmare. I had an especially bad go with Wellbutrin, which I kept taking for two weeks because the dr. assured me it was generally well tolerated. When the anxiety got so bad I became paranoid and began crying in public, I called her and stopped taking it. I get a little sick just typing this. ((shudder))
  17. Lilyblue

    Lilyblue New Member

    Has anyone read Dr. Mercola's newsletter today about Vitamin D and Vitamin K2? What are your thoughts on the subject?
  18. Gustav123

    Gustav123 Life,enjoy it.

    This thread reminded me of something I read years ago. It was a paraphrase of a statement made by the CEO of one of the big pharma companies. He said in effect that while they do lots of studies on their drugs that due to genetic variance in the population there is a good deal of the population that we really dont know exactly how the drugs will interact. Of course there may be a parameter....a range....fatal events may be unlikely..but it makes you think when you hear this.
  19. Intrepid

    Intrepid New Member

    That's exactly how it is. Drugs are tested only on a small sample of the population.
  20. June-

    June- New Member

    Anything that can alter the body processes to do good, can do harm. Nutritious food sustains us. Too much nutritious food, even 'good' food, can make a certain % of us diabetic. How much of an overload of foos it requires to cause this harm varies from person to person. So it is for every substance. We have to be judicious.

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