Vitamin C IS working (Updated 9/15/2010)

Re: Vitamin C seems to be working (Updated 9/14/2010)

"...Just because someone reports they feel better does not make it so..." That makes absolutely no sense, but I'm not gonna pursue this with you, Scott. We basically don't agree on anything so there's no point in starting 'the argument' again.

Being lazy here, carnyard (I don't wanna backtrack), do you think the vit C has helped your tinnitus? Just curious. Something's making mine worse lately - probably this seasonal allergy thing.

Do you take Lysine in combination with something else - I mean is it sold as a combo or is it a separate supplement?

 

Re: Vitamin C IS working (Updated 9/14/2010)

Joy,

The Vitamin C has definitely helped with my tinnitus. When I caught that cold and my MM symptoms came back, my tinnitus went from 1 out of 10 to 8 out of 10 with 10 being the worst. Now it is going back down again since I increased my Vitamin C intake.

I take the L-Lysine recommended in the JOH regimen. I take two capsules 3x's per day without food.

I take the sustained released Vitamin C tablet recommended in the JOH regimen 3'x per day with meals. The remaining Vitamin C comes from ascorbic acid capsules. This is the one I take:

http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=VS-1247

Carnyard

 

Re: Vitamin C IS working (Updated 9/14/2010)

I am talking off the top of my head here, but I understood the point about increased doses going straight into the toilet to mean that the kidneys increase the rate of excretion so that blood levels do not keep pace with the increased dose. Obviously you can megadose and raise blood levels for short times but (again in my understanding) it becomes increasingly harder to maintain those levels chronically. Depending on how quickly the excretion rate responds to blood levels, it might be practically impossible to maintain anything above a certain limit.

 

Re: Vitamin C IS working (Updated 9/14/2010)

Recommend you read the information available on www.vitamincfoundation.org or some the links/info provided by sirlanc on this thread. May help answer your question.

 

Re: Vitamin C IS working (Updated 9/14/2010)

Some interesting info on Linus Pauling and Vitamin C from Quackwatch:

• Pauling is largely responsible for the widespread misbelief that high doses of vitamin C are effective against colds and other illnesses. In 1968, he postulated that people's needs for vitamins and other nutrients vary markedly and that to maintain good health, many people need amounts of nutrients much greater than the Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDAs). And he speculated that megadoses of certain vitamins and minerals might well be the treatment of choice for some forms of mental illness. He termed this approach "orthomolecular," meaning "right molecule." After that, he steadily expanded the list of illnesses he believed could be influenced by "orthomolecular" therapy and the number of nutrients suitable for such use. No responsible medical or nutrition scientists share these views.
  
  The medical literature contains a few case reports of toxicities that might have been associated with taking large doses of vitamin C. One report suggested a risk of kidney failure in patients with pre-existing renal insufficiency. Vitamin C ingestion may also increase the risk of kidney stones. It has also been argued that vitamin C may increase the risk of other types of kidney stone, e.g., urate stones, and Stein and colleagues noted that a single 4 gram dose of vitamin C could increase urinary excretion of uric acid, which might increase the risk of developing urate stones.
  
  Several additional side effects noted in a small number of patients have been attributed to high doses of vitamin C. These side effects include "rebound scurvy" (a scurvy-like syndrome) resulting from sudden cessation of high-dose vitamin C intake, gastritis (inflammation of the lining of the stomach due to acidity of vitamin C), hemolysis (breakdown of red blood cells), reduction of serum ceruloplasmin activity (which suggests interference with copper metabolism), and iron overload.

 

Re: Vitamin C IS working (Updated 9/14/2010)

Are you kidding? I've seen commercials for popular pharmaceuticals with more ominous potential side effects than this. Aspirin has more potential side effects than this. Studio34: I would again ask that you post the current state of your MM and what treatments that you followed with success or failure so the forum has a complete understanding of your frame of reference.

 

Re: Vitamin C IS working (Updated 9/14/2010)

For readers convinced of the universal validity and applicability of conventional medicine, for those who elect, for whatever reason, to refrain from any Meniere’s therapy not commonly practiced by physicians, or taught in medical schools, there is little here that can be endorsed. Stop reading, remove this website from your Favorites list, and continue to hope that what your doctor has prescribed for your Meniere’s might, somehow, begin to work better than it has.

If you haven’t, you should take the position that any CAM, Complementary and Alternative Medicine, is fraught with all sorts of hazards, that large doses of vitamins, supplements, and minerals, are likely to cause side effects and threaten normal health. The safety and efficacy of most of these are simply unsupported by published large, replicated, double-blind clinical studies. People using these are staggering around by themselves in profuse ignorance of real dangers and hazards. They are playing ignorantly with their own health, endangering their future well being.

The legitimacy of conventional and traditional medicine cannot be questioned by anyone without the letters PhD or MD behind their name. Human health is far too complicated for amateurs to be dabbling in, especially for a disease such as Meniere’s. Even the professionals clearly claim that they don’t know what causes it, it’s “idiopathic.” If the pros can’t figure it out, what hope is there for commoners like us reading this website?

Then, there are the costs. Medical care is extremely expensive in the US. It may not be wise spending scarce dollars on unregulated vitamins and supplements (Who’s ever heard of lemon bioflavonoid or vinpocetine?) when it can’t be known if these are over-priced or even pure? The FDA doesn’t have inspectors in the plants that make these sorts of things. In fact, and this should be a real caution, as large number of supplements sold in the US are actually manufactured in China and other countries. Heavy metal contaminants have been found in some of these.

Then, there is the extreme problem of the very questionable accounts of people who so boldly claim that unregulated, un-prescribed drugs or supplements have brought levels of symptomatic relief they never got while diligently doing what their physicians told them to do. Clearly, these accounts are only placebo events, where out of the extreme desperation Meniere’s eventually induces, they have conjured up relief merely in their minds. The placebo effect is well understood by the medical profession, and it thoroughly explains all of the numerous accounts of alternative relief found on this website. One must feel sorry for these deluded individuals. They are so confused, and their efforts at psychologically suppressing the symptoms must be debilitating. Sooner or later, they will be forced to go back to their doctors and beg for more of real medical Meniere’s therapy.

Then, lastly, there is the ridiculousness of chiropractic, that some quasi-medical “doctor” could, by bending and stretching the backbone, somehow stop vertigo and dizziness and brain fog and all the other Meniere’s symptoms. Even the most ignorant high school sophomore ditz should understand that realigning vertebrae (if she knew what those were) just can’t really work.

Of course, I’d strongly recommend that those with higher levels of discernment totally avoid my particular Meniere’s regimen. Over two hundred people have posted or emailed ostensibly astounding personal accounts of relief gained from my regimen of unregulated vitamins and supplements. Let’s finally make it clear. I put this thing together just to fool people. I’m delightfully playing with their health. Except for physicians in Russia and Germany (How could those guys be believed?), who commonly prescribe vinpocetine, gingko, and others, for Meniere’s, the stuff in my regimen has no researched, published efficacy information. Only fools would buy and consume any of these things. Any symptomatic relief can only be attributed to ignorant hopefulness. Let that be very clear.

Intelligently, stay away from most of the stuff posted on this board. Even geniuses like double-Nobel Laureate Dr. (PhD, not MD) Linus Pauling can be deluded into thinking that vitamins, minerals, and supplements taken in large doses, not prescribed or advised by real physicians, can bring real relief. You gotta feel sorry for that poor bloke, who spent hours each day spooning out multiple grams of powdered vitamin C, taking so much that he was always on the edge of diarrhea. But worse, he wrote a book on all of this, gave lectures and speeches on massive vitamin C dosages, deceiving thousands. It was an intellectual crime that Pauling used his professional reputation to promote the fraudulent use of vitamin C for inordinate numbers of human diseases. After spending decades dosing himself with up to 15 grams of vitamin C each day, along with lots of the amino acid lysine, it’s a wonder that he lived to the age of 93.

Again, for intelligent people, this is not the website you should be reading if you have Meniere’s. This one’s for ignorant, desperate fools. Your health, pocket book, and general well being are endangered here. Just look around and start reading all of those who have finally recognized their error, noting how all of what has been posted here really has caused pronounced health problems.

Here’s were you need to concentrate: http://quackwatch.org/

When you next sit down for the five minutes with your physician, be sure to tell him that you’ve finally seen the light, that all that website stuff about Meniere’s is bogus, and that you really want him, as only he can, to finally fix your Meniere’s. He really does read the medical journals. He has what it takes to authentically fix your Meniere’s. Please give him a better chance than you have in the past. Remember, it’s your fault for messing around over here. You need a real doctor, not some useless ground up lemon pills or something.

And to put the cherry right on top of this formerly controversial topic (now entirely defused), please come back and start posting the many successes conventional medicine will bring you. Many fools here will want learn about the successes of low salt/diuretic therapy, gent injections, and especially the surgical procedures real doctors can provide. Vestibular Nerve Section, VNS, must simply be 100% effective, as it just slices off the offending nerve. People here need to learn more about the successes VNS brings, and how few side effects there might be with any of the prescribed drugs.

Most of us who post here are ignorant fools. Sorry for the misinformation. No need for intelligent people ever to come back to this site. The matter, finally, is settled. My apologies for all the problems I’ve caused here.

–John of Ohio

 

Re: Vitamin C IS working (Updated 9/14/2010)

I'm struggling with that one myself. How do I know if I am having short-lived remission or if the stuff I'm taking works? Or, is there just something in my system that triggers some sort of time-released autoimmune response to something like vaccines or medications I've taken in my past...who knows? It's difficult for me to tell, especially since I don't really know what brought my condition on in the first place.

It's just not that easy for me although I wish it were. For instance, if my symptoms go away as they have done, which lasted for some time, and then return with fighting strength to take over, are they returning due to something in my external environment or are they back because of something internal, or maybe I need to increase my dosages...ya know?

As a layperson with basic rationale, I am forced to admit that I am of JOH's persuasion simply because some of the authorities who provide perspecitives on vitamins and suplements are medical and don't even try to help people like us. I have read that going beyond recommended dosages don't bring additional relief of symptoms; however, if this were the case how does one account for drug overdoses?

Take care All.

 

Re: Vitamin C IS working (Updated 9/14/2010)

You do understand that JOH is being sarcastic?

 

Re: Vitamin C IS working (Updated 9/14/2010)

John you are priceless & I genuinely appreciate you very much.

 

Re: Vitamin C IS working (Updated 9/14/2010)

I think people need to ease up a bit frankly, my understanding is that this community is one based on accepting everyone and their situation and trying to provide support.

If someone disagrees with the common consensus on the board, then all power to them, we all need to be challenged occasionally. The most dangerous situation is one of blank acceptance of the consensus and is, rather obviously, what so many of us have experienced with respect to the medical profession.

Deep breath everyone, back up a bit...



Edit: Of course, this applies both ways, if people want to argue a different point then some form of argument is required.

 

Re: Vitamin C IS working (Updated 9/14/2010)

carnyard, Studio34 suffers with MAV not Meniere's.

JOH, one thing I have always respected about you is that you never claim to cure people but let them make there own decisions in regards to your regimen.

I have no doubt that your program has helped reduce symptoms in many as I read about it all the time here. I have MAV and you acknowledge that your program is not designed for people like me but you still offer plenty of insight into supplements and I have supplements that I take daily that may work to control my MAV and just generally help my health. I have not had a cold since taking vitamin D even though I live with people who have and don't take it.

 

Re: Vitamin C IS working (Updated 9/14/2010)

Caroline,

Then Studio34 should not comment on a disease he has no personal experience. I do not post on MAV because I do not have MAV and have no frame of reference or experience positive or negative to share. There are MM sufferers who can benefit from the collective experience of other MM sufferers. People like Studio34 have no credibility in this area, just like I have no credibility with MAV.

Carnyard

 

Re: Vitamin C IS working (Updated 9/14/2010)

9/15/2010

Reached 11,000mg of Vitamin C. No fullness. Hearing is back to about 80%. Can have clear phone conversations with either ear. Dizziness and vertigo still gone. Tinnitus is down to 2 out of 10 with 10 being the worst.

 

Re: Vitamin C IS working (Updated 9/14/2010)

Personally, I draw on the experiences of both MAVer's and MMer's since I share the symptoms with both. I read the stuff posted by both of you and many others and then decide for myself if it has any benefit to me. I would know nothing if it was not for this forum. I have hope for my future as I know many here have had improvement by trying different things and being a good advocate for themself.

There are so many parallels between these two diseases/conditions and sometimes it is hard to know where one starts and the other stops. Just as many here have been misdiagnosed, I may have too so I like to read everything I can about all causes of these symptoms.

 

Re: Vitamin C IS working (Updated 9/14/2010)

Passion searching for a MD cure is great! Passionate debates are one method through which knowledge progresses especially so when the motivation is pure.

I for one think there is a good chance that leading cures for those not helped by standard treatments can be and should be initiated by topics on this forums. This site is the largest forum of MD sufferers in the world and is the best place to share information and test out new ideas

Lets keep the fire burning under the beast, lets fight it together, lets keep on debating and trying new cures. Leave it to the readers to decide what actions they would like to pursue.

 

Wow, great results Carnyard. What is the rda for Vitamin C?

 

Caroline,

There are MAV sufferers who responsibly post regarding MM and vice versa due the similarity of symptoms. And there are those who openly challenge the merits of MM treatments that other MM sufferers are having success without any direct knowledge or experience. To me, that is irresponsible and counterproductive.

Carnyard

 

Caroline,

The RDA is 600mg.

Carnyard

 

I too am up to 11,000 mgs daily, but so far haven't noticed a change in the tinnitus or fullness or hearing.
Still pushing through, hoping it kicks in for me and brings some relief.