Valium & similiar drug users ... check this out!

Absolutely the ONE MAJOR thing that I appreciate this thread for is that it remained (for the most part) fairly civil. Just because people disagree doesn't mean things have to turn into a battle! I'd like to thank most of the responders for keeping it that way and not letting it turn into the messes we've seen in the past.

See things can be kept to discussion if cool heads prevail!



Oh yeah and the Blues - cool man! cool! 8)

 

Can you provide a link to this please Sam....I know what droperidol is (a major tranquilliser and antiemetic) but can't find any info on how it actually stops the vertigo without altering the brain.

Also, can you please provide a link for this hypothesis. Valium IS a vestibular suppressant ie it QUIETENS down the vestibular system....from my readings NO one is absolutely sure which part of the arc it acts on for vertigo but I have had top otoneurologists tell me that by taking it to SUPPRESS the vertigo you are actually delaying the relentless progression of the hydrops...more vertigo = more damage. The hydrops is still there even when one IS NOT having vertigo.

Thanks
Maggie

 

and then read this too so you have ALL the facts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Breggin

"Although he regularly critiques and has written reviews of the scientific literature, Breggin has not published controlled, independent peer reviewed research to substantiate his claims. He has been accused, by critics, of cherry picking information from the research of others to draw unrelated conclusions. Stephen Barrett of Quackwatch, a retired psychiatrist and critic of Breggin, has stated; "he would like you to believe that his clinical experiences and investigations have enabled him to reach a level of insight that is greater than that of the majority of mental health professionals".

 

When my V. A. Dr found out that I was on Valium from another Dr. he immediatly had me slowly go off of it. He now has me on Zannex. I know why he took me off of the big V pill. It wasn't working and he said it is a very habitual drug. I was drugged up so much I didn't know where I was. That's what it did to me anyway, not saying that it doesn't help others.
Personally, I believe if I could have dexemethezone shot in my ear 3 times a week I believe I would feel great for a while. The only trouble is I would keep needing more and more and everything else in my body would be shot. There's no doubt in my mind that I would be completely deaf in one ear if it wouldn't have been for dex perfusions. It's a shame that somthing that works so well will eventually kill you. i'm2dizzy

 

I have read the work of Peter Breggin and have heard many interviews with the man. I happen to believe he is a very dangerous practitioner. Anyone who has suffered 24 hours of agitated depression or incapacitating anxiety can tell you Breggin is a fool of the first degree. Those conditions are manifestations of a chemical imbalance in the brain. Anything that a patient can take to alleviate their psychic pain (from personal experience no less agonizing than physical pain) is a good thing, even though it may carry its own risks. Here's just one link among many to dispute some of Breggin's "findings"

http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/breggin.html

This particular article addresses Breggin's opinions on Ritalin but the man has also spoken against A/D's etc...The fact that it's on quackwatch speaks volumes. Reminds me of that whole school of crazy shrinks from the 60's and 70's lead by R.D.Laing who claimed that schizophrenia was not really "an illness".

George

 

As I have said before...without the valium, I would be spending my life laying in bed or setting real still on the sofa, as I did for 2 yrs prior to the doctor prescribing valium to suppress the vestibuler system. Each of us has to do what we have to do, in order to "live" rather than "exist" and for me that is taking 2.5 mg valium...more if needed. I love it when some people, who do not understand living with constant vertigo, has the time to post an article that stands to scare me off of the only treatment that has worked for me! I chose to listen to my doctor and follow his instructions...I hope all of you do the same...blessings, twinkle

 

Re: Valium & similiar drugs To Twinkle

Bless you too pet, I am going to take whatever makes my day easier, and other people's opinions do not matter!! Not even a little bit!! At my worst I felt suicidal...... Love to all Jean F

 

Yeah George, some improvement, after I read your post I went and put on a little Stormy Monday, and I could actually follow it.

And I even was able to do some listening to my "The London Sessions: Howling Wolf" CD, featuring some "helper" musicians in the late 60's, like Bill Wyman, Charlie Watts, Steve Winwood, and some guy named Eric Clapton.

No more for me about the topic of this thread but thanks to those for the condolences. He's in a good place now, pain free. Blessings to all!

 

You have made my day: that is one of my favorite albums OF ALL TIME (SHOUTING!) Clapton's solo on "Ain't Superstitious" is gold! And I love how the Wolfster tries to coach the white Brit musicians through "Little Red Rooster" but his time is so loose and so hip, they just can't get it and Clapton admits as much. Later, Muddy tried the same trick, using Brit rockers but his effort is not as good as H.W.'s. Respresent!!

George

 

Maggie, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droperidol
Droperidol is not a tranquilizer in that it doesn't "deaden" the vestibular nerves causing malfunction. I hope the link helps explain this. It might be more correct to say it controls the vestibular system which stops vertigo.

http://www.northshorelij.com/body.cfm?id=764&oTopID=764&PLinkID=723

As I said before Valium has several effects with the sedative and hypnotic effects being what mask vertigo. The sedative tends to deaden the vestibular nerve altering its activity and alters the brain into a state of hypnosis that doesn't respond to this sensation of false motion. Vertigo is a concept of motion that doesn't really exist. In other words your body or surroundings aren't spinning, your mind just feels as you are.

Now the problem arises because if these low "Meniere's" doses are masking vertigo, then they are affecting the brain for balance, motion and distance perception. In other words driving or doing anything that this sedative and hypnotic state will affect, should not be done. However many report driving and working fairly normal or they think they are. There is a lot of discussion on the legalities and even if a legal prescription, should an accident occur, the Valium taker could be considered at fault. I know in an auto accident here in Oregon, if one test positive for Valium, etc., they are considered under the influence. I know a man with inner ear problems called "Meniere's" and on low dose Valium that just lost in court after having an auto accident. It was difficult to establish fault to either party, but he was finally found at fault for impaired responses due to Valium. My PCP has had several "Meniere's" patients in the past that took Valium and had falling accidents.

If one has tried everything and Valium is the answer, then if they modify their life style giving up driving while on Valium and other activities where having a drugged central nervous system might be an issue, then at least you have bettered your life. Just be careful of a dependency and having to increase the amount.

I do find fault with an ENT or PCP that without proper testing and the test of TIME, gives one the Meniere's label, tells them to lower sodium way low and take Valium. If the Valium works, this patient will probably not look for anymore answers or care about their illness as they feel fine, until one day they must increase the valium to mask the vertigo. Hope this answers your questions.

The original post was to make you aware there is a forum that can help if you have benzo problems. If you don't then ignore it.

 

Obviously, Sam, you had someone near to you have a benzo problem, I was sorry to hear that. I would say though, that people should take their advice from their own doctor. To say that if you take any dose of valium you should then not drive seems extreme to me. When you say people report "driving and working fairly normal or think they are," that would scare me if I had no experience with valium, but after taking valium, as my doc prescribed, I would never have an issue with this. Having "a drugged central nervous system," to me, also implies a negative state where in fact it is a positive one for those taking valium for the right reason. In fact I would argue taking valium helped me work or drive better. That is my own experience, I think that it is fair that you bring up your sad personal experience with your ex taking too much of a benzo. That is terribly sad, and must have been awful to experience. But most don't take too much, at least here I have only read of responsible use. Responsible use is the key to ANY drug. Lisa B.

 

Jean...I handle it the same way...I can completely relate. I found out about valium on this site...so grateful but wish I'd had known earlier. Julie

 

Lisa, Check out this webpage ... scroll down to effects on driving. Their statement are consistent with other studies. There is impairment. Is it enough to cause a crash maybe taking someones life? Many doctors prohibit anyone with a Meniere's label from driving whether taking benzos or not. Now add a narcotic on top of an already damaged inner ear and it seems reasonable to me to not chance it, however that is a personal decision. One is forbidden from commercial driving if they have Meniere's and also if they take benzos. I don't drive anymore except on back roads for short distances. Having been a commercial driver for years, I know the dangers of a distance misjudgement. True the odds are on your side, but I won't chance taking someones life. Your feeling that you can work and drive better on Valium is a common illusion caused by narcotics, even in small doses. Have a policeman do a timed reaction test when you are off benzos for several days, then have the test again after being on them for several days. Your impairment will surprize you. Many years ago when I worked for the state, I was involved in such testing with the State Patrol. We found low dose benzos to impair more than a light pot smoker. It is amazing how stopping distance was increased about double. There were tendencies to oversteer, distance misjudgement of other vehicles, etc. Study this out for yourself and listen to your doctor, but be sure to ask them if Meniere's or Valium will impair your driving. If they answer how do you feel about it? How does it affect you, etc? I would get a second opinion. I have seen a lot of folks die out on the highways and it is never pretty. Be careful and good luck.... Sam

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/job185drugs/diazepam.htm

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Misc/driving/ddimp.htm

 

I totally agree with Sam's post above.

 

-------------------

 

As I do and my ENT's from OK, VA, GA, and AZ.

 

I go to a really great, well known neurotologist. If there had been even a hint of a concern with driving then he would have mentioned it. I just think it makes sense that people listen to their own doctors. I disagree with Sam's post. I am not doing this to disagree with Sam. I just don't want to not reply to what I see as misinformation continue about valium use. I think people who don't use it shouldn't comment on how it can affect you. There is no question in my mind valium helps me function better in every way when I have taken it. That is my own experience. I know people are different, but I agree that this seems to be a thread to scare people away from valium, and I don't think this helps this board as a whole. We are all different. Sam, you say you agree with that, but then you continue on to say why people shouldn't take valium. Doesn't make a lot of sense that that's acknowledging what people are saying here about their experiences. I have no need to make this thread continue on and on, but I also am having a problem listening to disinformation. Toni, you say your ENT's say don't drive while taking valium? That must be true if you say it but my pharmacy bottle with valium doesn't even come with that warning!!! You'd think it would if it were that dire. It DOES say don't drink while taking it. They do post those things. I wish everyone the best with their own treatment, Lisa

 

Lisa; my ENT'swon't even prescribe valium. I had to ask my Family practice doctor for it because of a sinus infection...I'm on my 3rd round of antibiotics. That's why I asked for it and took it once.

I think valium/benzos and surgery should be a last resort for vestibular disorders, not something to begin with.

 

I don't have any experience with Valium, my Neurotologist won't prescribe it unless absolutely necessary. I am not here to judge whether or not Valium should be used.

But I do have experience with other drugs that cause impairment, especially in driving. I used to be a heavy alcohol drinker in my early 20's, about a fifth a day. I used to drive after drinking because I thought I could handle it, never had a problem until I woke up one morning after a night of partying and found I had drove to a friend's house 20 miles away and didn't even know it. I quit driving when I had been drinking right then. That is an example on the extreme side, on the other side, I have bad hay fever allergies and I used to take over the counter medicine for it, which warns of driving, but one day I took an allergy medicine I never taken before, they were out of my regular pills, and I fell a sleep on the way home from work on the freeway. I went to the walk-in clinic that day and got a non-drowsy prescription for allergy pills (Allegra).

As seen in my earlier post, I have been in the Trucking industry since 1975 and take driving both commercially and non-commercial driving very seriously. You can not drive a commercial vehicle if you are taking benzo's. Below is a report by the WSP (Washington State Patrol) on the effects of prescribed drugs, non-prescribed drugs and illegal drugs on people driving impaired.

Personally, I am lucky, my daughter works with me so we drive to work together and all my shopping stores are within 3 blocks of my house.

All I can say is if you are using any drug, realize that it can effect you, especially driving, even though you feel "normal" using it.

Like they used to say on Hill Street Blues, "Let's be careful out there."



Performance Effects: Laboratory studies have shown that single doses of diazepam (5-
20 mg) are capable of causing significant performance decrements, with maximal effect
occurring at approximately 2 hour post dose, and lasting up to at least 3-4 hours.
Decreases in divided attention, increases in lane travel, slowed reaction time (auditory
and visual), increased braking time, decreased eye-hand coordination, and impairment of
tracking, vigilance, information retrieval, psychomotor and cognitive skills have been
recorded. Lengthened reaction times have been observed up to 9.5 hours post dose.
Lethargy and fatigue are common, and diazepam increases subjective perceptions of
sedation. Such performance effects are likely to be exacerbated in the elderly. In drug
users, diazepam has greater behavioral changes, including subjects’ rating of liking and
decrements in psychomotor and cognitive performance. Reduced concentration, impaired
speech patterns and content, and amnesia can also be produced, and diazepam may
produce some effects that may last for days. Laboratory studies testing the effect of
ethanol on subjects already using benzodiazepines demonstrate further increases in
impairment of psychomotor and other driving skills, compared to either drug alone.

Effects on Driving: The drug manufacturer suggests patients treated with diazepam be
cautioned against engaging in hazardous occupations requiring complete mental alertness
such as driving a motor vehicle. Simulator and driving studies have shown that diazepam
produces significant driving impairment over multiple doses. Single doses of diazepam
can increase lateral deviation of lane control, reduce reaction times, reduce ability to
perform multiple tasks, decrease attention, adversely effect memory and cognition, and
increase the effects of fatigue. Significant impairment is further increased when diazepam
is combined with low concentrations of alcohol (0.05 g/100 mL). A number of
epidemiological studies have been conducted to evaluate the risk of crashes associated
with the use of diazepam and other benzodiazepines. These show a range of relative risk,
but most demonstrate increases in risk compared to drug free drivers. These increases
have been twice to several fold. The elderly may have an increased risk of a motor
vehicle crash.

From the WSP (Wash State Patrol) State Toxicology Laboratory

The State Toxicology Laboratory has had an extremely busy and challenging year,
with an overall increase in casework of 7%, with growth in all sectors—DUI, DRE
and death investigation. The greatest area of growth was in drug-impaired driving
cases.Table 1 shows the drugs most frequently detected in impaired drivers
in 2005.

Table 1: Drugs detected in impaired driving investigations in 2005:
Marijuana 1,150
Benzodiazepines (valium, xanax, etc.) 629
Methamphetamine 591
Cocaine 350
Methadone 215
Morphine 199
Carisoprodol (Soma, meprobamate) 171
Hydrocodone 152
Anti-Epileptics (e.g. Topiramate, Tegretol) 147
Antihistamines (diphenydramine, hydroxyzine) 144
Oxycodone (Oxycontin) 121
Other Narcotic Analgesics (propoxyphene, codeine) 144
Zolpidem 80
Cyclobenzaprine 39
Dextromethorphan 36
PCP 22
Hallucinogens (MDMA, MDA) 22
The State Toxicology Laboratory also successfully completed voluntary accreditation
by the American Board of Forensic Toxicology (ABFT) in 2005. This accreditation
has been earned by only 21 other laboratories in the United States and Canada, for
many of whom it was mandatory. This accreditation process evaluates the written
procedures used by the lab, its personnel, its security, its handling of specimens,
and ability to make accurate drug identifications and quantitations.

 

Somewhere at the beginning of this thread, about 38 years ago , I wrote "never the twain shall meet" - I was speaking about the pro/con benzo camps. Here we are 38 years and two billion posts later and I think my words are being borne out....

And now, let me pop my 0.25 of Xanax and go to sleep. And if that doesn't help, there's always Bendaryl.

Zzzzzzz.......

George