I visited my oto this morning. Before I found out that my MM is mainly due to an allergy, I had started collecting scientific research to see what studies had been done on viruses and MM, and idea I borrowed from Chipmunk. During my first visit, the Dr said that he though viruses could cause MM, but that it was rare. Based on what I saw here from Chipmunk, JOH, Caribbean, and others, it seemed that the research out there was supporting a viral etiology for MM. So I found a lot of papers on a National Institutes of Health web sight. Of the fifty I found that dealt with viruses and MM, forty of them did support viruses as a cause of MM. Only six found no link between the two. I chose the NIH web site because the papers were all papers published in a scientific journal. That means they studies have all been examined and accepted by other scientist. It does not mean that the journals agree with the results of a study, but it does mean that they think it was a valid experiment. This is the logic that doctors understand. I purposely avoided adding any studies from non-scientific sites because there is no way to for a doctor to judge the validity. As supporting evidence, I also collected stories from those of you who responded to my anti-viral poll. Once you've established that viruses can cause MM, then testimonials on the effectiveness of anti-virals hold some weight. I emailed him the documents with text along the lines of: You are welcome to send these docs to your doctor. Keep in mind though, that even if you get anti-virals, it may not cure your MM. Since my MM is apparently caused by an allergy, it's not clear what effect anti-virals might have had on me if I had not discovered the allergy. It's possible, especially if you've suffered damage to the nerve or ear, that they won't help you. But I would ask to try them before I let them stick a needle in my ear. My oto was very interested in the research, and I think it made a difference. He was impressed by the fact that they were all scientific papers. He told me about a Dr friend of his with MM, who got a cold sore and started taking Famvir, and they were both surprised when the Dr friend's MM got better. They decided to keep up the Famvir. I don't think my oto was aware of the overwhelming weight of research. The oto said that they don't teach a lot about MM in medical school. I'm fortunate in that he has an interest in MM. Before I saw the oto, the fellow doing my hearing test were discussing my research. He was "all up on" the latest research because he'd just graduated. They taught him that it's only viral when it lasts a specific amount of time. I just smiled and handed him a hard-copy of what I had e-mailed to the oto. You are welcome to send them to your doctor if you want to try anti-virals and need help convincing him/her. Research into a viral cause of Menieres: http://www.papadisc.com/Menieres_Etiology_Viral.pdf Poll results & comments on anti-vira medications for Meniere's: http://www.papadisc.com/Menieres_Efficacy_AntiViral.pdf I want to see if I can make 100% of my MM disappear by avoiding my allergic triggers. If not, he'll happily give me Famvir on my next visit to see if that will knock out the rest of the tinnitus. Based on my own experience I would also urge you to see an allergist if you can. In my case, I had no clue whatsoever that an allergy might be involved. I just lucked up when, out of desperation, I gave up wheat. You can determine many food allergies by yourself with some temporary diet changes.
papajoe- i just noticed your attention "span" got shorter. too funny! btw i'm also a nightmare when you unleash me on the internet to research my various health issues.
Great work Papajoe. You mentioned that dr's get little training in MM. When my audiogram showed positive results, my ENT thanked me for bringing the antiviral thing to his attention. I think he was sincere in that. He prescribed a step-down dosage for the next three months when I will see him again. I suspect he was encouraged enough by this to possiblly try it on others. Doctor's worst nightmare? I wonder what they think when they see me coming in with my file folder in hand. Funny story. About 3 years ago, my husband thought he had vertigo so he went to our GP and told him what he thought was wrong with him. So our GP asked him if he had come in for a second opinion? Turned out to be BPPV and soon went away. I had really never heard of vertigo before then. Sigh!
Papajoe! Your the best! I'm taking information to my family doctor to see if you will help (re: antivirals) so this is very helpful! I don't have the nerve to send it to my ENT as we only have a couple in my area and up to this last appointment he had been good to me. I'm ticked off with him right now and am hoping my GP will hear me out about the option of antivirals vs the Gen shots. Thanks again! Jen
My oto was afraid that I was the type of patient which wanted a magic pill to fix the problem (which he says is true of the majority of his patients). Once we talked and he realized that all of the research was valid scientific research, and that I wasn't expecting a magic pill, he was much more willing to take a new look at the research. I was careful in my e-mail not to tell him he was wrong. I mentioned that he had said that MM is rarely caused by a virus, but that my research of scientific papers had shown the opposite, and that I wanted to discuss this with him. The testimonials are good supporting evidence, but only when presented with the scientific evidence. If I had told him he was wrong, or demanded a prescription, he would have dismissed me and my arguments. After all, even with all of the scientific evidence, he knows a lot more about the medical issues than I do. When you see your doctor, it's important not to demand a prescription, but ask him if he/she's had a chance to review the papers, remind him/her that they are all taken from recognized scientific journals, some of which he may subscribe to. Then ask him/her what he/she thinks. If he/she is open to the argument, he/she may want a trial period. That's fine. If after a decent trial period, you don't improve, there probably isn't a reason to continue. Your doctor may want to use hearing tests as a bench mark, though you should ask him to include the non-measurable quality of life issues as well. If he/she doesn't want to prescribe you anti-virals, don't get mad, but if you have access to other doctors, let him/her know that you may look for another opinion. As you said, you don't want to anger the doctor, as you may end up seeing him/her again. As it turns out 90%+ of my symptoms have turned out to be related to a food allergy. With out the allergen, most of my symptoms are gone, and I'm left with only a bit of tinnitus and fullness. Since I was mostly better, I told him that I wanted to wait three months to see if avoiding the foods will make all of my symptoms go away. Knowing that the bulk of my symptoms were caused by the food allergy, if he had given me anti-virals at the last visit, and the tinnitus went away, I wouldn't know if the tinnitus was cured because of the diet or because of the anti-virals. If I still have tinnitus when I go back to see him, he said he would be happy to prescribe anti-virals. When I go back to see him next time (three months) I do plan to ask him if the research has made any difference in the way he treats patients. Good Luck!
Keep in mind too, that Gent shots are designed to destroy(as in permanently) your inner-ear function. I have no idea how effective anti-virals will be if you're inner ear is damaged by prolonged MM or by Gent shots. Note that Dex shots are an attempt to reduce the inflammation, and so (I think) don't do any damage to the inner ear, but Gent shots used are to destroy the vestibular functions. I feel (my own humble opinion, I'm not a doctor) that Gent shots should be a last resort type treatment.
I have a similar reputation. A few yeas ago I was invited to a seminar on diaabetes by a doctor at the hospital where I get my primary care. My GP told me the Dr had asked for a senior patient that was knowledgeable on the disease. My doc told him, "He knows more than you do." Thanks for the great research on virals. My GP and my oto will have copes of that and the JOH roegimen to study a couple of weeks before my next appts.
Thanks Phil. I have not studied it yet, but my gut reaction to the JOH regime is that is boosts the immune system, and helps fight off the virus. In my case, though, I can't take some of the JOH items because of taking warfarin (or rather, I could, but regulating the warfarin becomes too much of a hassle). My oto did recommend bioflavenol, which I have started taking. Please let us know how your doctors respond to the documents. Papa Joe
<<I can't take some of the JOH items because of taking warfarin (or rather, I could, but regulating the warfarin becomes too much of a hassle).>> My doc wanted me to take warfarin (cumadin) but I refused. told him if I wanted rat poison I'd go to Lowe's and buy it cheaper than prescription. He then put me on 325 mg aspirin that I take twice a day along with gingko biloba and now vonpoecetine (sp). don'thave to worry about shaving with a blade
Would if I could, but I had a pulmonary embolism of unknown origin a few years ago. The specialist told me that there was a 20% chance I would have another one within five years if I didn't take the warfarin. Interestingly enough, I asked the specialist recently if a Vitamin D deficiency (a popular topic here) could be responsible. He found one study that said yes, but he wasn't ready to take me off the warfarin. And it only kills rats because they OD on it. If they would get their blood tested, they might be OK.
