Report from the Institute of Medicine about Vitamin D

You certainly haven't angered me! I hope you don't stop posting your experiences. Some of us are rather polarized on some of these issues, but we still (for the most part) manage to get along. We're definitely like a family here--some of us drive each other crazy!!

Check out the link in my sig--I hope it might provide you with answers, or at least point you in a direction that leads you to answers for your MM symptoms.

Good luck, and please keep us posted!

 

Some posters have a reputation of being confrontational and some don't. It's easy enough to ignore the posters who do.

 

I'm not sure that INS appeared angered in any way. I think the questions were above-board.

The "issue" some may have with your posts is partly a problem that is in the nature of communicating instantly by written word, whether it be e-mails, message boards or text messaging, for that matter. And that has to do with the fact that it is often really difficult to decipher a person's tone based on looking at words on a screen.

The other part is that your conclusions, at times, do not jibe with the entire body of the post. In other words, I understand that you finalize your thoughts at the end by saying, "This is only my opinion, " or, a "reasonable minds can differ" sign-off. But yet, you have a manner of speaking as though you were very definitive and authoritative on the subject and you make some very broad pronouncements. When you do that, the message gets lost and people focus on the things they disagree with.

For example, "Hey, folks, I have found that turmeric really helped me with my symptoms. And I was doing some research and it turns out that makes sense because turmeric has some anti-inflammatory properties." That's not the type of sentence that is going to get you questioned much. If anything, people will thank you and move on.

But when the message is stated, "I can definitively tell you that I am an industry insider, and pharmaceutical companies purposely are making you sick so that they can profit. And because I have personally spent thousands of hours of research on my own working on cures that those arrogant 'doctors' won't tell you about because they're not as educated as I am, I have been able to cure all manner of afflictions with herbs. And my vast knowledge has led me to conclude that turmeric works for MM. Oh, but by the way, this is all just my opinion and you are free to remain ignorant and disagree with me." Well, what did you think was going to happen?

 

Papajoe,

With due respect, I think it's not as easy as that. There was quite a bit in those posts that were clearly confrontational in tone to begin with. Some posters blow it off, and others react to it.

But let me ask you this:

If I had posted the exact same things in the exact same tone, but flipped it around and touted pharmaceuticals as the answer while accusing the VMS world of fraud, greed and deceit....do you agree with me I would have gotten an equally negative reaction from the folks who are supposedly non-confrontational?

 

Not from me

 

LOL fair enough.

 

"But when the message is stated, "I can definitively tell you that I am an industry insider, and pharmaceutical companies purposely are making you sick so that they can profit. And because I have personally spent thousands of hours of research on my own working on cures that those arrogant 'doctors' won't tell you about because they're not as educated as I am, I have been able to cure all manner of afflictions with herbs. And my vast knowledge has led me to conclude that turmeric works for MM. Oh, but by the way, this is all just my opinion and you are free to remain ignorant and disagree with me." Well, what did you think was going to happen?"

I never meant to infer that anyone here is ignorant. I never said Turmeric works for MM. I actually stated that I do not know what the answer to MM is. I only said that Turmeric helped me. I precisely stated multiple times that I am not sure my illness is identical to others here and that their mileage may vary. In other inferred words "hey it helped me just thought I would let you know". I try to speak very literally about my experiences and if people infer things between the lines that I did not actually write, say, or mean, i'm not sure how to deal with that. The fact that I am jaded with the pharma world does not automatically infer that people that believe pharma is the only answer are ignorant and if they decide to read in those connotations it does not stem from the fact that I told them they are wrong and ignorant. I have never once said anybody here is wrong or ignorant and that inference probably says more about them than it does me. Sometimes people react this way when their beliefs are challenged because people do not like to have their beliefs challenged much of the time. Sometimes it scares people when their beliefs are challenged. Not me. My beliefs have been seriously challenged and I have stated multiple times that I have no problem with it and that I value all sides and opinions because I could easily learn something from the differences in opinion.

I agree that writing in black and white does not convey tone and sentiment. Sentiments "inferred" by a reader are a product of their own making. I'm not sure how this is resolved other than to literally stick to the written words and if they words I write don't say "you are ignorant and wrong" then to infer that I meant something so crass is a little unfair to me.

 

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but nothing about what you stated "challenged" my beliefs, nor would it have "scared" me if it did. And if you're not scared to have your beliefes challenged, then I'm certain you would consider the possibility that you've laid it on a little thick and might just possibly come across as condescending. I'm sure it won't scare you to consider that.

If my comments "say" something about me, it's that I'm not afraid to point out to you that your modus operandi is going to limit your ability to get valid points across because your posts are over-the-top about your beliefs. If you are unable to see that, then, if anything, it says something about you.

 

Gees people. Get a life.

 

Now why would I want to go and do a thing like that?

 

Wino quite frankly i'm sick of your inferences. If this is personal to you then it is but I don't have to participate anymore with you. I stated some opinions and some facts. Then I had planned to move on and continue the discussion about Vitamin D which is what the thread is about. Instead of that happening this has become a pissing match for you. A pissing match in which I do not wish to participate and one you seem to take pleasure in. Why you stick to what I actually write instead of you prefer to wish I mean? If you did this problem would not have derailed this thread and turned it into the trash festival it has become. You have presented no facts, only your inferences as to what you "think in your own mind that I am saying." You presented no facts about any of your opinions whatsoever and attack me because you don't feel that I have. If you don't like my opinion on some subjects why don't you simply say so and stop badgering me. I participate in other forums and I don't have these problems. So yes I believe it says a lot more about you than it does me. You can stop bullying me around anytime you please.

 

JOH my mother just called me and said "i'm at the pharmacy is there anything you want me to pick up for you while i'm here"?

I said "Vitamin D".

She said "They said on TV that they have discovered that Vitamin D doesn't do you any good so there really is no use in taking it".

I said "That is not true mamma so don't listen to them".

She said "But they said their scientists said so".

sighhhhhh...The propaganda is working.

 

Yeah she really said it. That was the impression she was left with. Sad too because a lot of other people are probably left with the same impression. And just so you know I would never take the advice of an herbalist at face value without researching it first to see if I can find reputable scientific backing to shore up their opinion. Until I find some science to back up what they say it is hearsay in my opinion. Most herbalists I know are very high on Vitamin D too and think it would be crazy to entertain the notion that it is not beneficial.

 

Earshurt,

You haven't angered me in the least, nor challenged any prejudices or beliefs I may have. So no problems there at all. You'll recall in my earlier post I made a point of saying that we should all keep an open mind and not jump to conclusion based on our world views. So - I am a skeptic. I've never made any claims otherwise, but I've also counselled myself (on this very thread) to not allow that to deter me from considering alternative views. But I do require evidence to be convinced. And I take the traditional, dictionary definition of evidence which is more than DIY 'research', individual anecdote or collection of anecdotes.

If people such as yourself have experiences you wish to share, go right ahead. I'm happy to hear them as are many others. But if you purport anything to be 'fact' then I won't be satisfied until the fact is established as such. But that's just me. Many others won't have that view and that is entirely their own affair. I have no intention of being confrontational. I apologise if anyone has read my posts that way. You have made some quite extraordinary claims and I have asked you to explore them further. That, in my opinon, is not 'confrontational'. It's responsible.

Earshurt I do not think it is reasonable that you consider you have been bullied. I find that disingenuous. This thread is about Vitamin D. This forum is about MM. You made some extremely serious claims about science and medicine which you purport as fact. High level conspiracy theories about 'Big Pharma' deliberately making people unwell to profit from people's illness and misery. That is a VERY serious claim. You segued very quickly into discussing illnesses like cancer, scurvy and stroke and how Big Pharma wants us to have those illnesses and how free herbs can save us. None of those claims had anything to do with either Vitamin D or MM. I cannot see how me or anyone questioning you about those sorts of claims while also trying to steer you back to either Vitamin D or MM is bullying or a manifestation of anger.

 

And we had a nearly identical discussion at work today, including a woman with severe rheumatoid arthritis/digestive issues and a pregnant woman who was just vaccinated for pertussis AND flu (even though the flu shot package insert specifically states that it is not recommended for pregnant women). Both of them are now convinced by the media that they should AVOID vitamin D supplements.

 

Another educated response to the report

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2010/12/02/ask-dr-hallberg-vitamin-d/

 

I just saw this this morning: http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2011/01/deadly-medicine-201101

 

Thanks, earshurt--I only just got to this.

Unbelievable, even to me.

"As currently configured, the FDA is not able to adequately protect the American public. It's more interested in protecting the interests of industry. It views industry as its client, and the client is someone whose interest you represent. Unfortunately, that is the way the FDA is currently structured. Within the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research about 80 percent of the resources are geared towards the approval of new drugs and 20 percent is for everything else. Drug safety is about five percent. The “gorilla in the living room” is new drugs and approval. Congress has not only created that structure, they have also worsened that structure through the PDUFA, the Prescription Drug User Fee Act, by which drug companies pay money to the FDA so they will review and approve its drug. So you have that conflict as well."

THIS IS FROM THE SENIOR DRUG SAFETY RESEARCHER AT THE FDA????!!!!!

 

For a bit of info and lightness on the topic thought I would add this link.
Think some people will like the photo.

http://www.thelocal.se/30566/20101202/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=204