Question for Gardenfish or anyone?

Discussion in 'Your Religion & Spiritual Corner' started by Ceeka, Dec 28, 2006.

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  1. Ceeka

    Ceeka New Member

    Paul, I copied and pasted one of your replies from another thread because I honestly and sincerely believe this should be its' own thread. You are someone I have always respected and admired; I hope you don't mind.

    Your reply was:

    Paul, my brother's answer is identical to yours. Recently, I have begun to wonder why? Why is one's spiritually a private matter. Of course, I realize this is a very personal question, but if the question is sincerely voiced and not with the intent to criticize ... why not answer? Is it to avoid a possible debate? What?

    I was brought up Catholic although all of us were urged to explore other denominations. My life with its ups and downs and roads to hither and yon have exposed me to many different cultures and religions. When everything was added up I realized I am not a Catholic and in truth I am no longer a Christian. The Bible is a great book, history book, but I can no longer accept it as the only path way to 'heaven' if you will. There were over a thousand books which could have been included, but weren't because it would have been too large to carry. This bothers me. My personal quest is for honest answers. Isn't the truth better than a myth with partial truths? Christians are allowed, even encouraged, to speak and discuss their beliefs. Because mine are not traditional will this thread be locked or vanish?

    I am not interested in debating, arguing or raging against those whose path is Christian or one that differs from mine. I would like to have an honest discussion about spirituality for my belief is equally as viable to me. I'm not afraid of death having had this experience three times in my life ... all verified with medical equipment and technology. There is only one God no matter His name and He loves all His children and will welcome each with open arms whether they are Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, etc. without prejudice.

    When my youngest daughter (at the time) left I thought my world had ended. It has taken me years to realize it is not the number of years we live on this earth. I believe we each have a purpose whether it be to learn a lesson or to teach one. Once our work is done it is time for us to return 'home'. Kelly was only eight and I wasn't ready for her to go. Then I realized it isn't whether I was ready it was all about when she was ready. God didn't love her more and me less or vice versus. Our souls are on a journey and she no more belonged to me than I did to my parents. We are all God's children and we belong to Him.

    Religions with their rules and rites seem to me to be more about power and influence than loving God. Wars have been and are currently being fought in the name of religion or someone's interpretation of a particular religion. I find this sad and just plain wrong.

    I hope with all my heart you and anyone else who might like to post will do so. Sincere questions are welcomed, but indignation and/or ridicule is not. I support each of you and the path your life has taken. I pray you will do the same for me and any of us whose belief may differ from your own. God is love and He made us in His image.
     
  2. rev

    rev New Member

    Ceeka,
    I hope that folks will respond decently are with the respect this topic should have. This area isn't just the Christian corner, it is the "Your Religion & Spirituality Corner." We all should feel the same safety to post our thoughts and beliefs, without fear of attack or retribution.
     
  3. ThornInDaesSide

    ThornInDaesSide New Member

    Ceeka, what are your beliefs?

    I may not agree with you, but I'll grant you the right to discuss them. One of the first things I learned as a Christian was to respect others.

    Funny how so many Christians forget that one. (Hey, I'm nothing if not honest.)
     
  4. NurseMom

    NurseMom New Member

    Cee- Your post was amazing. I don't normally post much in this area but this brought out so many good points.
    I don't mind if anyone asks me about my religion- what I don't appreciate is someone trying to push their views on me or assume the position that they are better because they go to church every Sunday.
    I was raised up in the Baptist Church and by my teenage years had moved to an Assembly of God church. I saw a lot of good within the church and then again- a lot of bad. Unfortunately, I attended a church in which my aunt basically "owned" with her money. She and my uncle were extremely wealthy and I saw a huge difference in how they were treated, how their children and relatives seemed to get all the recognition and "awards" and I hated it. I know others noticed too and it embarrassed me. I was absolutely amazed at how the "preacher" could be bought so easily also. It amazed me also how my aunt could be so judgemental towards others.... instead of sharing love and giving acceptance- she would openly condemn an unwed mother, a high schooler who tended to party...... basically anyone who did not follow that "perfect persona" to her. I must say, it was people like my aunt and others that I have dealt with in life that pushed me away from "organized religion". I will never forget my husbands cousin trying to tell me that it is not appropriate for women to wear pants and within his religion (Holy pentacostal) that is their beliefs-- but DON'T try to push them on me. I was working as a nurse at that time and NO way would I get up and perform CPR on a patient with a skirt on and I'm perfectly comfortable in jeans and pants (and I truly don't think God minds that much either).
    I'm accepting of people within all religions as long as they are accepting also. One of my dearest friends is Jewish and I love learning about her religion, am I going to practice it?-- no way-- I wouldn't know how to eat Kosher if I had to!--- but she has a heart of gold, her religion is very fascinating to me and I admire how she respects her religion but doesn't try to push it on others also.
    As to my actual religious beliefs today, I do believe in God- but I do not belong to an organized religion-- I'm non-denominational. I do not think any of us are here to judge, nor are we in the position to judge. We are all human, we are going to make mistakes and we grow by learning from those mistakes.
    I can't say that I will return to the normal church services on Sunday, I would like to say that I can find a place that just fits and feels right-- but right now, I just see too much judgement from many of the people that I know that do attend church weekly (and I'm certainly not saying all or even most members of the church are like that-- I have seen some wonderful examples of Christianity right here from members on the forum). Another thing I don't like is the pompous activities going on within the churches. Smaller churches are dying out and giving way to HUGE church organizations with their golden topped roofs and huge video game rooms for teenagers.... with the preachers driving Mercedes and there being competitions on who tithes the most. To me, that is not what it is all about- that money should be spent on helping the poor and giving back to the community... not in seeing who can build the fanciest, most extravagant church.
    And I understand fully what you mean, we are only given a certain amount of time here and when that time is up- we go back to who created us. I was mad at God and mad at the world when I lost my Mom. My only thoughts were- how could he let me be "orphaned" at just 27 years old, how could he take away not only my Dad- but now my Mom too. It took me some time to get away from that mentality and now I realize, they were precious gifts in my life and they did their job-- they got me to that point in life where I could be on my own and knew I would be well taken care of by my husband and I realize that I was blessed to have them for the short time that I did.
    I am often asked, how did I deal with religion topics when I worked as a hospice nurse. I was very open with talking to any of my patients about religion. We did have a chaplain that also went out to see every patient. I did not feel uncomfortable at all to pray with a patient if they desired so- but I did not push my beliefs on them either.
    Wow- Cee, you made me think deeply early in the morning! Good topic though!
     
  5. tess

    tess New Member

    Cee...interesting topic. I've been thinking a lot about "religion" during the holidays. Aren't we supposed to be in reverance of Christ's birth this time of year? I've stepped back and wondered about all the music blaring in my ears in the stores, and the decorating and the people up in arms because some companies won't say "Merry Christmas", and choose to say "Happy Holidays" instead. It's just madness to me. I have reached a point in my life where I want to spend my own time observing the birth of Christ in my own way. I don't need Congress, or Honda, or my grocery store to dictate how I celebrate, what I say or even eat! I don't want anyone to tell me it's a "religious" holiday or even a "secular" holiday.....because no matter what it is, it's out of control.

    This past Sunday I did something different for Christmas. I left my family for the first time to "do" everything. I chose to depart from being "it"....the one who makes sure everyone's Christmas is "merry" and wonderful. I took my two children to South Padre Island and we spent three glorious days doing nothing but enjoying our time alone together. We ate out...watched movies at the condo, walked the beach and really didn't talk about Christmas much at all. Our condo had a nice fake palm tree in the livingroom, and that became our Christmas tree. We had six packages on the floor in front of it....and we took turns opening each package. It was lovely.....and a Christmas gift to all of us. I wish we could repeat this every year.....keeping it simple and quiet.....and away from the crowds and noise. But times will change and so will our observance of Christmas.

    The rest of my family? My brother stayed home alone, by choice. My mother had to fly to Dallas to see my niece at the worst time of the year because my sister orchestrated Kim's day for her. Kim spent most of the day asleep in bed recovering from radiation and chemo that had made her very ill on Christmas day. My mother is back home now and crying her eyes out reflecting on this very sad situation. Her Christmases will be changed forever because of what was imposed on her. None of this was about "Christ".....it was about a "party"...a day that should be like every other day of the year. Days that should be spent thinking about other's always....caring, sharing, doing, loving.......everyday. I feel certain that God does not find pleasure in seeing the stress, frustration, agony and extravagance done in Christ's honor. But, it's a hard cycle to break. We don't have to let go of all of it.....but we don't need to be led around by the nose either. It's all a choice.....a matter of acceptance and belief....just as we all decide how deeply we live our own spiritual lives.

    As for Pauls statement.....for me it would depend on the circumstance. Some people (like you are asking) want to understand. And in that light, I find it ok to discuss religion. But in the situation that Paul was responding to, it seemed intrusive or implying "guilt" on an ill person. That becomes a very personal question....one that should be left to those close to the family or ill person. For that reason I would answer as Paul did. So I suppose I'm saying that yes you are right....but there are exceptions if the intent is to impose someone's beliefs on another.

    Very good post.....and very thought provoking.
     
  6. Cathy

    Cathy New Member

    This post reminds me of an interview I saw last night on Patricia King's show. She had a young man from Palestine that was raised in Islam. He later became a Christian. When you think about it, we all came from Abraham. He gave very good insight on being a Muslim and being a Christian. I work for two Muslim physicians and one of their wives. They ask me to pray for them, and I feel humbled that they ask. I am reminded that we all are God's people, and I am to love others (regardless of religious beliefs) as God loves them.
     
  7. Ceeka

    Ceeka New Member

    Thank you, Rev, for your support of this topic. You have always had my respect and admiration, but never more than now. I do read your posts and am aware of your sensitivity and caring ways. You are a good man with a kind soul and I am honored to think of you as a friend.
     
  8. charisse

    charisse Been hanging here for 8 years

    When I worked at the ymca we had some people come to donate their services, I believe they were Mormon. One guy asked me what my faith was and I told him, christian. He began to debate me and I did speak with him for a bit but it turned out well. He so wanted me to see his truth and I was touched because he really wanted me to have what he did, I knew he cared. My search brought me to where I am today, not blind faith. I must admit I really miss so many people in our last church. There were some who didn't get it, they were legalistic in their walk and could be a stumbling block to others. I knew how I saw my God and didn't really let them change that for me, as hard as they tried :D I see people as possible friends no matter what they believe.
     
  9. Jazza

    Jazza Saved by Grace Thru Christ Jesus

    Ceeka

    I can't answer for Paul or anyone else, I can only share with you my experience in this matter.

    There was a time in my life when I would have answered the same as Paul. My religious belief was my own & I din't want to disclose it to anyone else. This was due to my fear of being judged by others who held different views to mine. I also hated it when you came across people who couldn't accept your beliefs and always tried to convince you that you were wrong and should believe as they do. So I decided it was easier to keep my views on Religion (& politics) well and truely to myself.

    Today I am able to deal with those kinds of people better than I did in the past. I don't get angry or offended if they try to impose their views on me and if their tone or conversation starts to get heavy I end the conversation and just walk away.

    I'm glad to say though I haven't come across people like that at this forum. I find everyone here is respectful of other peoples views. I'm happy to share here. Actually I love reading other people's viewpoints it helps me to see a subject or topic from another prespective other than my own.

    Milica
     
  10. Sarita

    Sarita New Member

    My mother lives across the ocean so we don't get to see one another very often but we do talk on the phone every day. Just two days ago she mentioned that she felt it would be so much easier for me to get through my rough patch if I believed. Not just any belief but the belief system I was born into. She said that there is a sense of peace and that one finds answers when one is in communion and spends time in that belief system. It works for her, she said and nothing would make her happier than to see me give it a shot...because I can't know how it feels since I haven't tried it, not her way anyway.

    I listened to her and didn't get into an argument because I knew she wanted to help so badly and was offering me this ultimate personal gift of hers. A couple of years ago I would have got myself into a heated argument because this talk would have made me defensive and
    when we get defensive most of us tend to attack.

    In the end she herself said, well, the ultimate goal I guess is the same for everyone but I sure wish you were on this particular path. I chose to leave out the second half of her sentence and focused on the first part. We're all trying our best to get the same things and to the same place underneath the technicalities and idiosyncrasies and dogmas of our belief systems. I just choose to focus on that and it helps keep my heart open especially when people then add the second part of that sentence.
     
  11. Ceeka

    Ceeka New Member

    Dae, thank you for your question and, please, don't ever think I want or expect anyone to agree with me. To explain how I feel, it might be easier to simply say one day I woke up, looked around, and realized I wasn't happy or content on my path at the time. I had questions and eventually began to research for the answers. To delve into that would be very time consuming and in any case it is not relevant to this particular discussion. What I discovered was a wide belief system (some similar, some not) so I began to look for what was basic and identical in all religions. You could say I turned right at the next corner and began to assemble my own beliefs from a combination of religions, experiences, and investigation. For the first time, I felt peace and a sense of rightness or oneness with God. And, I continue to research and explore in order to gain deeper insight. I may not be explaining this well as it is relatively new for me also. It is not my desire to influence anyone for I certainly don't speak for God. My quest is a personal need to discover the truth as well as the myths of religion. I do believe in reincarnation and accept this path as right for this life. That does not mean it is the right path for anyone else.
     
  12. Ceeka

    Ceeka New Member

    NurseMom, Tess, and Cathy, I appreciate your interest and sharing on this topic. Your posts confirm we are all searching, questioning, growing, and learning via our experiences, etc. Like you I don't believe in discrimation based on religion.

    I believe it is ok to question the dogma of any religion to know if it is right for us. The ultimate goal being to live our lives decently and following the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
     
  13. Ceeka

    Ceeka New Member

    Charisse, you have condensed what I have been trying to say into a much simpler and easy to understand format. You sought the correct path for you as an individual yet do not impose your beliefs on others. You are a remarkable lady. There are not many as tolerant.
     
  14. Ceeka

    Ceeka New Member

    Milica, I'm afraid I might have put Paul on the spot and wish I hadn't. It is certainly everyone's right to privacy.

    I agree with you, I learn and grow quite often from reading the posts of others whether I agree or disagree. My personal opinion is that God has no prejudice and loves all of us however we choose to honor him.
     
  15. Ceeka

    Ceeka New Member

    Sarita, what can I say ... our parents are our parents and believe they know what is best for us no matter our age. I miss my mother so much and would give anything to have her back. You are very lucky. And, you followed one of the Ten Commandments which isn't always easy to do. I find it interesting I've discovered them in more religions than not. The words may differ, but the meaning remains clear. I believe our beliefs are fluid - ever changing to act as guides so we may find the truth which is often buried under miles of dogma and tradition. Thank you for your post, I appreciate your sharing.
     
  16. Aladdin

    Aladdin Guest

    I understand GF's statement all too well.

    Not referring to Ceeka; but many times I have openly and honestly stated my faith and my belief and had been condemnded (sp) or ridiculed to the point that I no longer wished to share with anyone. Unless I felt the person truly wanted to know what Faith gave me peace, and a smile on my face.

    The best way to lose a friend is to discuss politics and religion. Never loan money to a friend; consider the money a gift.
     
  17. gardenfish

    gardenfish New Member

    Ceeka, no worry about me being "on the spot". I think it neat that you feel such passion about this topic.
    All of the situations in which I was ask the questions were rather unpleasant. I was confronted as being doomed if I was not "saved".
    By private I mean many things one of which is that my spiritual life is the fuel for every other part of my life. Without it I truly am doomed. To me that is very personal. Do I discuss religion and spiritual topics with folks? You bet I do, but only in a venue free from attachment to a given outcome. This, at least for me, promotes a nice range of topics and without judgment or any kind of "should". I have better things to do than be told I am going to burn unless I am saved. God is more creative and understanding than that.
    You all have a blessed day and be well.
    Paul
    Paul
     
  18. Sarita

    Sarita New Member

    Cee,

    Sometimes you just have to choose whom to discuss your ideas with. Some will enrich your journey, spiritual or not, and others won't.
    Sometimes as this little story indicates, we can be like the student and other times, we can be like the Zen master. I guess it's up to us to evaluate the situation.

    There is an old Zen story of a scholar who was granted a rare interview with a renowned meditation master. As the master quietly prepared the tea, the student expressed how grateful he was for the interview, and began to lay out his spiritual resumé for the teacher. He spoke of his high practices, the other teachers he had studied with, the books he had read and written, and how this all fit perfectly with this interview. Very eloquent in his presentation of his skills, the student continued to try to show the master what a worthy student he was, and the potential he had for learning. The master, who hadn’t spoken a word yet, began to pour the tea. He filled the student’s cup, and then continued pouring until the tea flowed over the side of the cup, across the table, and onto the lap of the student, who jumped up in surprise. The master then placed the empty teapot on the table, bowed, and left the room. When the student questioned one of the master’s attendants about his outrageous behavior, he was told that his cup was already so full, and that anything the master offered would be wasted, like the tea in his lap.
     
  19. Titus

    Titus New Member

    Why do I share my faith?

    Because I'm a Christian and Jesus told us to do so.

    I'm not a religious person. I don't belong to any specific denomination and I don't get upset because one denomination says we should to "this" and another "that". This has been true since the fall of man (or if you don't believe in the fall of man, since the beginning of the world) and much of it is about control and pride. I try to chew on the meat and spit out the bones. I rely on God's Holy Spirit to guide me to the truth I need to fulfill His purpose. I love reading the Bible but I believe much of it is parable (just as Jesus taught in parable), and much of it is history. And some of it is even restricted to the particular culture and time it was written.

    Prior to becoming a Christian, and subsequent to my Catholic education and experience, I studied Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam. I also experimented with some alternative-type spiritualism not centered on God. And I studied Christianity. I found some attractiveness to all of them.

    And then I actually asked Jesus to be my Savior. It was then that I rejected religion and accepted Christ. God became real to me and I found out that we could be close. So that's "my spirituality" story.

    Even though I don't belong to a particular denomination, I've been taught some wonderful things from every denominational church I've attended. The Southern Baptists taught me to listen to God and immerse myself in His Word. The wonderful Methodist church taught me that faith without works really is dead! The Assemblies of God showed me that the Holy Spirit is alive in me. The Word of Faith church let me know that God loves praise and worship, in every form! The Catholic church showed me how to be reverent toward a Holy God. And an Episcopal priest helped me to get past my guilt and understand that I serve the God of forgiveness and grace. I have been so blessed in my journey with Christ.....it just makes me want to shout,
    Hallelujah ;D
     
  20. pardonme

    pardonme Guest

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