Pondering the Yonder (it's the yeast we can do)

YES! that sounds nice right now!

 

Papajoe, are we supposed to have a yeast-free intestinal system? I thought (perhaps mistakenly) that some yeast is normal and non-harmful. Do we need to kill it ALL off, or just stop eating sugar, take probiotics, and use lots of turmeric and pepper?

Also, I know cinnamon is supposed to beneficial for the body's processing sugar with less risk of diabetic reaction (NOT to be considered a license to eat tons of sugar)--does cinnamon have any effect on yeast?

 

You do need yeast in the intestines, but it needs to be in the proper balance. The problem occurs when yeast invades the rest of the body. You need to kill back (not kill off) the yeast in the gut to help the gut heal.

The ideal situation, once the gut flora is in balance, and the gut is healed, would be to take the systemic anti-fungals IV, but that creates a whole different set of logistics. Kefir gives you a good balance of bacteria and yeast to repopulate the gut while you take the oral anti-fungals.

 

It may have already been pointed out in this thread but how can you tell you have an over abundance of yeast in your gut? I had my stomach ckecked from top to bottom (no pun intended) and my PCP also had them check out the 'stuffing' a few years back and everything was normal. I was diagnosed with IBS at the time and wonder if that is any indication. I know IBS is a syndrome so, once again, it's an opinion or educated guess from the doctor behind the symptoms presented. I would think that, if it can be measured, it was something that was tested for way back when. ???

 

IBS is often as-yet-undiagnosed celiac disease .

The endoscopy/biopsy currently considered to be the gold standard of celiac diagnosis has an extremely low false-positive rate, but a relatively HIGH false-negative rate. If your villi are not YET damaged enough to qualify for the official celiac diagnosis, or if the surgeon simply biopsied only healthy spots (villi damage is often patchy), the diagnosis comes back negative.

There are an awful lot of people who end up diagnosed with celiac years after having initially been told that they didn't have it. During those years, their bodies received an awful lot of damage, and that kind of damage is not always reversible.

That said, I am wondering if there is a candida component to celiac disease, and if so, how large a role it might play. Or maybe the two are just often concurrent and not directly related--but do they share a causative factor?

 

Holly, I know of no reliable test for an overgrowth of candida in the gut. There are labs that can test for the presence, but the skeptical doctor will tell you it's no big deal since it's supposed to be in the gut. I haven't done an exhaustive search, so you may google and find a lab that can give you a quantitative analysis (meaning how much, not just that it's there).

Of course, for MM/MAV, if it's caused by yeast is pretty much (IMHO) systemic. There is a spit test (google candida spit test) that supposedly tells, but I haven't tried it because I was well into my yeast treatment when I found out about it.

There is a lab company (don't have it's name offhand) that will test your stool for candida, and test your urine for arabinol (a by product of candida). The theory is that if there were no candida in your body (meaning systemic), then there would be no arabinol in your urine. I haven't tried it because I was well on my way to being treated for yeast before I found out about it. Insurance companies will probably not pay for these, but they might convince a skeptical doctor.

IMHO, the easiest and cheapest test is to start a candida diet and start taking probiotics. If it helps, it's a pretty good bet you have yeast, and you can continue with antifungals. If it doesn't help, it probably means yeast isn't your issue.

Taximom, I believe that candida can cause IBS and a host of other things. I'm not quite convinced it can cause coeliac, but it might (especially if the genetic factors are there). Maybe it's a combination of candida (or other damage) and the genetic factor. I wonder if it's possible to have the genetic factor, but not have coeliac?

I had IBS for years but didn't realize that it wasn't normal to have to make emergency bathroom stops, especially after a big meal.

 

In your oinion Papajoe, what's the most reliable 'test' regarding knowing there's a yeast problem? I've looked through past replies and there is so much information it's hard to separate it out.

There's so many different problems with MM and seems to be so many different things that have worked for some, but not for others it's next to impossible to really figure out the best most efficient way to even begin. It's daunting. And the more I read, the more convoluted it becomes...sigh.

 

Thanks for your explanation Pappajoe. It helped me hone my thinking. How do you see cayenne in this mix and how do you suggest using it?

Also on the Kefir grains, according to what I read about those sites, they have a nice group of people that help each other and they share their Kefir grains with people trying to get started.

 

I think cayenne makes a fine spice. When I eat Thai food, I order it "Thai Hot". It's good on hot wings too. I do think it has health benefits, but I wouldn't overdose on it (or turmeric or anythings else).

You've identified a number of natural substances that have beneficial properties. I would suggest mixing them up so that you're not eating (or sticking up the wazoo) the same thing every day. (I would probably use cayenne north to south and not south to north, if you catch my drift.)

I think sharing kefir grains is a great idea - though depending on where they got theirs, it may or may not be any better than buying commercial kefir and using it to start your own culture.

 

As an added point of information I am using Thyme and Oregano to lower the yeast count in the gut and it works well for me.
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Also I am familiar with Herxheimer reactions. My dad had one when he started Turmeric and his was severe. He got over it in a couple of days and he feels a lot better now.

 

I meant say capsicum Pappajoe instead of cayenne. Typo. How do you see capsicum working into this?

 

Have you tried the candida diet yet, and are you taking probiotics? That's what I recommend as a first step and is certainly cheaper and easier than the lab tests.

Here some tests for systemic candida that test for different markers, especially D-Arabinitol. I have not reviewed the science, but this appears to be what my ENT/Allergy doctor told me about:

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/microbialoat_yeast_combo.asp - this is the specific lab and test that my ENT/Allergy doctor mentioned.

http://www.metametrix.com/test-menu/profiles/organic-acids/organix-dysbiosis

http://www.metametrix.com/test-menu/profiles/organic-acids/organix-comprehensive

http://www.genovadiagnostics.com/index.php?option=com_gpanel&Itemid=2&task=view&id=11


Here are some PUBMED articles that validate the use of D-Arabinitol as a marker for systemic candidais.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC229212/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2501687
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC258452/

Other interesting articles:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC267684/pdf/jcm00068-0165.pdf



http://books.google.com/books?id=1o6fFMpMAesC&pg=PA415&lpg=PA415&dq=candida+laboratory+%22D-Arabinitol%22&source=bl&ots=zAdWuvk7gP&sig=BJRG7tHMPLRBsWGPdog3f5C_zoI&hl=en&ei=_isFTYn9E4OKlwf7lpnNCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CEwQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=candida%20laboratory%20%22D-Arabinitol%22&f=false

 

Herx is a bitch.

 

same thing, really. I prefer to get my capsicum by eating cayenne. Or habaneros if you're a "real man". (I've eaten habaneros, and I can confirm that I'm not man enough for 'em). Thai bird peppers are humdingers too.

 

I agree with you about candida being able to cause IBS.

The "genetic factor" (DQ2 and DQ8) for celiac is less important than many doctors believe. It is certainly possible to have either of those genes and NOT have celiac. Conversely, many biopsy-diagnosed celiacs do not have either of those genes. Last I read, the percentage was quite high--70-90% having those genes, but since 10-30% DON'T, that raises an awful lot of questions that nobody seems to be asking.

Like, why do those 10-30% have celiac if they don't have the supposed genes for it? What else might be a triggering factor besides diet?

If we look at autistic kids, we see that many have either celiac or gluten intolerance, also casein intolerance, and ALSO systemic candida infections.

We also see that many of them had extremely serious reactions to vaccines.

I posted way back earlier in the year some studies showing that vaccines can cause several different autoimmune disorders, including diabetes, celiac, and various food allergies/food intolerances.

I would wonder if vaccines could be a factor in candida infections.

 

I would be hard pressed to find a link between vaccines and candidasis (but then, I'm not a doctor ). I certainly won't discount the possibility out of hand.

 

I think the link is when they reside in the same body. One body/immune system under assault from 2 things is worse off than if under assault from one. It probably won't fight either one as well.

 

Or it could be the other way around--candidasis might set the stage for a vaccine reaction?

 

I never thought of that, but if I had to choose, I'd choose that over vaccines causing candidasis.

 

I always have a vaccine reaction. I believe it is due to my ultra alert immune system mounting a defense. I think this is a known phenomenon and heaven knows a lot of us here have hyper alert immune systems.