Pondering the Yonder (it's the yeast we can do)

Discussion in 'Your Living Room' started by Papajoe, Dec 2, 2010.

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  1. earshurt

    earshurt New Member

    Homeade probiotics Holly. Does similar to your yogart. Puts good organisms in the body to lower the number of bad organisms.
  2. June-

    June- New Member

  3. earshurt

    earshurt New Member

    Fermented Cruciferous vegetable. Generates large amounts of Lactobacillus, which is a good flora bacteria.
  4. June-

    June- New Member

    have a yogurt
  5. earshurt

    earshurt New Member

    Pappajoe you're a Kefir man. Saw this and thought you may find it interesting. How to make keifer from the grains so that it is free of lactose that would turn into galactose sugars.

    Commercial versus Homemade

    In our opinion homemade products are better all around. For one, you do not have to trust a manufacturer with your health. You have total control over what you are eating. You can purchase the best milk and/or vegetables to use.

    Commercial products are usually geared for taste and not health. In the case of yogurt, this means that commercial yogurt usually has a high lactose content and is usually loaded with sugar. Homemade yogurt can be made to eliminate virtually all of the lactose and will be much fresher than anything you can buy in a store.

    If the taste isn't to your liking, you can add in fresh fruit and/or honey to sweeten it up. Store bought Kefir has the same problems, you have no control over the lactose content in the end product. Another thing to consider is, real Kefir is difficult to find in the store. Quite often a manufacturer will label a product as Kefir when in fact it is not the real thing.

    In order for Kefir to be real, it needs to made from Kefir grains and not a powdered starter. As for fermented vegetables, such as sauerkraut, most commercial products have been pasteurized and do not contain live cultures.

    The pasteurization process not only kills the beneficial bacteria, but may also destroy many of the enzymes and nutrients. Commercial sauerkraut may also contain a fair amount of unnatural preservatives. We know that you will find fermenting your own foods at home more rewarding, healthier, cheaper than probiotics, and more enjoying than anything you could purchase in the store.

    Making Yogurt & Kefir:

    Making yogurt is very easy, especially if you own a yogurt maker. We recommend purchasing a Yogourmet Multi – they are cheap, easy to use, and can make 2 quarts per batch. You can get a yogurt maker and yogurt starter from a trusted friend at Lucy's Kitchen Shop.

    Once you have a starter and a yogurt maker, all you need is some milk (we recommend using Half-n-Half) and some patience. The directions that come with the maker provide a fermentation of 6 hours. However, we recommend you ferment your yogurt for 24 hours to eliminate all lactose in the yogurt [however, candida sufferers must remember that lactose is turned into another sugar during fermentation, which is called galactose].

    Any residual lactose could be used as food for bacteria already found in your GI-tract and result in fermentation in your intestines

    Kefir is a fermented milk product made from Kefir grains. Unlike yogurt, Kefir is made from lactobacillus bacteria and several different yeast organisms and is fermented at room temperature.

    The most difficult step in making Kefir is getting someone to sell/give you some Kefir grains. It would be impossible for us to give Kefir any justice when there is a website out there that will describe everything and anything you need to know about Kefir.

    The web site is called Dom's Kefir In-site at: Making Kefir Dom also sponsors an egroups list you can join to find someone to share Kefir grains with you and to answer any question you may have about Kefir. Here are some directions from the wise Dominic about eliminating the lactose in the Kefir [however lactose is turned into another sugar called galatose], so it still isn't acceptable for candida sufferers:

    "I find a good way to eliminate lactose even further is to ferment the kefir per usual (24 hours), strain, then keep the strained kefir in a bottle (at room temperature) for a further 2 -3 days before consuming (ongoing fermentation). I don't keep my strained kefir in the fridge any more, but keep it like this in a cupboard.

    The kefir is still good even after 6-7 days. One must give the bottle which the kefir is continuously fermenting in, a shake at least once daily. This is so that the microbes (mainly the yeasts) are mixed in well. Other wise one may find a film or colonies of yeast or the acetic acid forming bacteria on top of the kefir.

    This is safe, but some lactose digesting yeasts may be flourishing mainly in this top layer, shaking will help to distribute them into the kefir, where you want them to do their work (breaking down lactose).

    This continuous fermentation can also be done in the fridge, but I find that a more pleasant tasting kefir, with markedly reduced lactose is achieved this way, (at room temp.). One can also keep fermenting the kefir, like above, in an air tight bottle. Note: During fermentation lactose changes into another kind of sugar, called galactose, so candida sufferers would not have kefir.

    After the second day or so, an effervescent kefir will be produced. But i must point out that the bottle must not be filled more that 3/4 full. Of course, one could also ferment the original kefir for 48 hours, then follow on with the suggestions above.

    This may further make sure that the lactose content would be eliminated to a greater extent, and possibly in a smaller amount of time."
  6. Jordan

    Jordan New Member

    Regarding yogurt, I think I read that "Greek" yogurt is more beneficial than other kinds which have sugar and other things added to them. Aspartame can also be an issue. In the Middle East, we mainly use the so-called "Greek" kind, which is sour and is eaten with almost every meal. It is fresh with no preservatives added. I remember that a lot of the yogurt we bought in the U.S. used to taste very sweet so we used to get the sour kind in a Middle Eastern grocery. Personally I like eating fruit with yogurt but can see how that would be counterproductive for someone trying to fight a yeast infection. People in Jordan (where I live) often eat a garlic/yogurt concoction when they are ill.
  7. earshurt

    earshurt New Member

    Papajoe I read another account of someone that had an outbreak on the ears after they started wiping out the candida. I lost it though. Thought I saved it for you. But I did read about someone with similar experience.
  8. Papajoe

    Papajoe Myco-dental Freak of Nature

    Well, I have read of cases where, due to cancer treatments or other extreme treatments, that patients have been subjected to the two prong approach, starting at both ends and meeting in the middle. Even cases where the source of the alternate probiotic entry point is "donated" by a family member or other kind soul. For our case, I personally don't think it's necessary, but I'm certainly not poo-pooing the idea, whatever works for you in the end. But be careful who you tell about this, you might become the butt of their jokes.

    But I think you have the rest of it ass backwards. I think the reason your improvement only lasts a little while and then regresses is precisely because you're not killing enough of the bad guys.

    My experience was that when I went on the candida diet, even with probiotics, is that I would improve for a while, but then the yeast would start feeding on whatever it was that I was eating. February of this year was tough because I was pretty much eating as simple a diet as possible.

    Even nystatin only provided temporary relief, because it only attacks yeast in the gut.

    With your supplements, you're helping the situation but your temporary improvement is due to the fact that you're not killing enough yeast in the body. While too much yeast in the gut is the beginning of the problem, it's the yeast in the body that's making you sick. Systemic candidasis.

    My feeling is that the probiotics are important to heal the gut, not to kill the yeast. Healing the gut is important because it separates the yeast in the blood stream (where it shouldn't be), from the yeast in the gut (where it should be, but in small amounts). If you don't heal the gut, any treatment that kills yeast in the body is doomed to eventual failure, because the pathway from gut to body is still there.

    Probiotics give you a healthy gut, but doesn't kill the yeast. Nystatin helps control the yeast in the gut, and so works with probiotics to heal the gut. But it doesn't kill the systemic yeast. For that, you need the diet and the systemic anti-fungal medications. I know you don't like or trust big pharma, and I don't either, but not everything they put out is questionable. The anti-fungals work well in the right circumstances.

    So, why not just start with systemic anti-fungals and bypass the diet, probiotics and nystatin?

    Four words: Jarisch-Herxheimer Reaction and liver.

    The Herxheimer reaction (or Herx) makes you feel bad. Sometimes real bad.

    The reason yeast makes you sick is because of the toxins they create in your body. But when you kill yeast, the dead yeast release toxins as well. The difference, of course, is that live yeast continue to poop out toxins, but dead yeast only release the toxins once, so killing the yeast will make you feel bad for a while, but eventually your body will clear the toxins and you'll feel better. The classic no-pain no-gain situation.

    The other gotcha is that systemic anti-fungals can cause liver damage. I don't know whether that's due to the liver getting overloaded with toxins from the Herx, or whether there are other issues at work. I suspect the first, but then, I'm not a doctor. You need to have monthly liver panels done (blood test).

    The reason the diet/probiotic/nystatin is important is because it heals the gut and slowly kills off the systemic yeast. Then when you begin the systemic anti-fungals, there are fewer yeast in the body and so less Herx and (IMHO) less change of liver damage.

    But why take the chance on the liver damage? Because yeast is very hard to kill, and (again IMHO), half-measures will not kill the yeast and any benefit you see will be temporary and you'll continue getting sicker. At my worst, in the second half of 2009, I took over 35 sick days and there were days when it was a challenge to leave my bed and walk to my recliner. I believe that if I hadn't tried the wheat-free diet (thanks to SoCalCyclist an others) I expect I may very well be dead now. If not dead, then certainly permanently disabled.

    So, I still think that the turmeric, coconut, et al, are a good idea, but not sufficient.
  9. Papajoe

    Papajoe Myco-dental Freak of Nature

    I dunno about nature, but I sure don't, though my GI doc has me on the three year plan.
  10. Papajoe

    Papajoe Myco-dental Freak of Nature

    Sauerkraut and kim chee rule!
  11. Papajoe

    Papajoe Myco-dental Freak of Nature

    Well, all of this is related. Probiotics are the (IMHO) first step. The choice of where to put them is a personal one :eek:
  12. Papajoe

    Papajoe Myco-dental Freak of Nature

    Since this thread started with me pondering the yeast in my ear lobe, maybe that's where I need to start shoveling the sauerkraut.
  13. Papajoe

    Papajoe Myco-dental Freak of Nature

    Just be careful where you're aiming that torpedo!
  14. Papajoe

    Papajoe Myco-dental Freak of Nature

    Kim Chee has everything that sauerkraut has PLUS capsicum! If you don't already have a burning ring of fire, kim chee will give you one. But it tastes good!
  15. Papajoe

    Papajoe Myco-dental Freak of Nature

  16. Papajoe

    Papajoe Myco-dental Freak of Nature

    Cruciferous sounds like a character from Harry Potter.
  17. Papajoe

    Papajoe Myco-dental Freak of Nature

    I'm aware of that natural is known to contain a greater variety of probiotic organisms, but unless you are personally acquainted with a Kurdish goat herder, I'm not sure where you would find the natural stuff. Even if you make it at home, if you start with commercial, the homemade will have the same flora as what you started with. PUBMED articles analyzing kefir will tell you that no matter where you get your kefir from (Turkey, Afghanistan, Taiwan, etc), every single sample will contain different organisms than every other.

    I started mine with grains I got from the nice lady at the coffee bar. I use coconut milk instead of dairy milk. I have no idea where my grains originated, but I like 'em. And I can't comment on the quality of kefir grains ordered from the internet, but you can order them from the internet.

    If you get a good quality commercial kefir from the store, you can use it as starter for your own home made, and you can put whatever you want in yours. I sometimes keep my strained kefir on the counter (covered with a paper towel) and sometimes in the fridge, depending on how often I'm eating it.

    I'll definitely check out those web sites. And lactose or galactose, the goal of the kefir is to help heal the gut, so the sugar that may come with it is not (IMHO) a major issue.
  18. Papajoe

    Papajoe Myco-dental Freak of Nature

    Do you drink kefir in Jordan as well? The middle east is where kefir originated (at least Asia Minor, and the Caucasus). There are certain fruits that are considered OK for a candida diet (at least in small quantities). Mangos and pineapple come to mind. I like mine with fruit too. Garlic sounds "interesting" (how does it taste in yogurt?)
  19. jesseandalison

    jesseandalison New Member

    I make ranch salad dressing out of my yogurt, garlic, Bulgarian buttermilk,
    pepper, cayenne, white pepper, paprika, capsicum drops, and turmeric.
    great way to get it all!
  20. Papajoe

    Papajoe Myco-dental Freak of Nature

    Sounds delicious! But as a friend of mine says, you'll need to put the Charmin in the freezer.

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