Mike Spencer's USANA vitamin regimen

My other thread about Mike Spencer's book and his vitamin regimen got a lot of replies. He claims (and so do a lot of other people) that Meniere's symptoms are gone after doing this regimen. In Spencer's case, he felt improvement after one month, and his symptoms were completely gone after six months. .

Here are the five USANA supplements recommended my Spencer. He got this regimen from Karin Henderson, a Canadian nurse who was researching Meniere's treatments for her husband. The regimen has had a lot of success. But unlike John of Ohio's regimen, it aims to repair the immune system and eliminate autoimmunity, which the formulator, Dr. Wentz, believes is the root cause of most Meniere's cases. Wentz is a Canadian microbiologist and immunologist. Not surprisingly, he owns USANA vitamins.

Neither Mike or Karin are financially involved in USANA, or at least that's what they claim. Mike's website says that it's possible to find similar formulations from other companies at lower prices, but these are the ones that worked for him:

http://www.menieres-help.com/system.php

Yes, USANA is unfortunately a multi-level marketing setup, thus the expense ($155 a month). Yet, my research on USANA shows that the vitamins have been tested and found to be #1 in North America in potency and purity. Could be bullshit; maybe not.

I'm inclined to agree with the autoimmune causality of Meniere's. I have allergies and a bit of psoriasis, both autoimmune issues. And even if Meniere's is viral in origin, a strong immune system would fight off the virus.

I'm trying the supplements (for as long as I can afford them) , along with the essential parts of John of Ohio. I'll definitely report results. If it's bullshit, at least I tried something and I can eliminate it.

I messaged this to John, and I'm anxious to hear his opinion.

Here it is, and Bless all:

USANA vitamin regime
MEGA ANTIOXIDANT (four daily)
Vit. A 7500 IU
Vit.C 650 mg
Vit. D3 900 IU
Vit.E 200 IU
Vit. B1 and B2 13.5 mg each
Niacin 20 mg
Vit. B6 16 mg
Folate 500 mcg
Vit. B12 100 mcg
Pantothenic acid 45 mg
Vit. K 30 mcg
Olive extract 15 mg
Mixed tocopheropls 17 mg
Bioflavonoid complex (Rutin, hesperidin green tea extract, pomegranate extract, cinnamon extract, bilberry extract) 99 mg
Inositol 75 mg
Choline bitartrate 50 mg
N-Acetyl L-Cysteine 50 mg
Coenzyme Q10 6 mg
Tumeric extract 7.5 mg
Lutein 300 mcg
Lycopene 500 mcg


CHELATED MINERALS (four daily)
Calcium (citrate and carbonate) 135 mg
Iodine (potassium iodide) 150 mcg
Magnesium 150 mg
Zinc 15 mg
Copper 1 mg
Manganese 2.5 mg
Molybdenum 25 mcg
Chromium 150 mcg
Selenium 100 mcg
Boron 1500 mcg
Vanadium 20 mcg
Ultra trace minerals 1.5 mg

ACTIVE CALCIUM (four daily)
Vit. D3 400 IU
Vit. K 600 mcg
Calcium (citrate and carbonate) 800 mg
Magnesium 400 mg
Boron 13.2 mg

GINKO-PS (four daily)
Ginko Biloba 25 mg
Soy lethicin 125 mg

PROFLAVONOL C (two to four daily)
Poly C Vitamin Blend (calcium, potassium, magnesium, and zinc ascorbates) 600 mg
Grape seed extract 200 mg

 

Good luck, Ron! Keep us updated ...

 

I'm not impressed with this list, for reasons that will take many pages to describe. But in short, here are my concerns.

Quantities are average to low, offering not much more than the cheapest multivitamins. I could compare most of the listed vitamins, but just these two here.

Vitamin D3 has just 900 IU. No vitamin D expert claims that this microscopic amount will change anything other than preventing rickets. The latest RDA (which is still therapeutically too low) has the daily level at 2000 IU. 5000 to 8000 IU are needed to have a useful effect on the immune system.

Vitamn E is listed at 200 IU. First, which of the 8 or more molecular forms of vitamin E is in the USANA product? All of the dl- isomers are of no health value. They are synthetic and never naturally encountered or used by the body. I would presume it to be the healthful, natural d-alpha form, but since I don't have the label, I can't tell.

Secondly, what about the beta, gamma, and delta forms of vitamin E? Those are crucial.

And 200 IU is insufficient. 400 IU are required for immunity support.

The bioflavonoid complex is only 99 mg, of a bunch of bioflavonoids that have little or no effect on inner ear circulation (as oppposed to the lemon bioflavonoid, eriocitrin, in my regimen, taken at approx 200 to 400 mg once or twice a day).

Frankly, I see this list of ingredients as a very expensive joke. VitaCost and Swanson's have a number of much cheaper multivitamins and multivitamin complexes that have useful quantities.

Let me know if anyone wants me to spend an hour or so deliberating on each USANA component in detail.

By the way, Johnni, do your VMS poisoning research. You'll find none. Hasn't been a reported death from VMS poisoning in many years, if ever --- compared to deaths from prescription drugs, taken at prescribed dosages. Thousands of those every year.

--John of Ohio

 

Ok, tell us from the research you would do, of authenticated cases of VMS toxicity. I just haven’t heard of any of these in recent months.

Inasmuch as hundreds of millions of dollars are spent by millions of VMS users each year, your purported health hazards of VMSs just haven't appeared anywhere that I know of. It's not on the evening news; no recent articles in newspapers. VMS toxicity just isn't in common discussion or experience. How could this be? Where are the thousands suffering from VMS toxicities?

Personally, I should really be in trouble. I've been taking a big multivitamin with excessive doses of most ingredients (way above RDAs), along with a handful of minerals and supplements (38, in fact), now for over a decade. So has my wife. Never so much as an upset stomach.

Of course, diligence such as you implore for VMS safety should require similar diligence in the ingredients of contemporary foods, most of which have long lists of obscure, un-natural molecules.

And, for safety, I’m sure you read the entirety of the drug information and hazard sheets in all prescription drugs, making certain that the drug, itself, has no toxicities.

Chemically, living in the 21st century is a hazard by itself. Gotta be real cautious.

–John of Ohio

 

I exchanged emails with both Mike and Karin back in 2012. I did buy the USANA supplements to give them a try. I believe the products to be very good quality as advertised, and as mentioned, very expensive. I followed the regimen for a couple of months with no real change in my symptoms. When taking the full regimen I was literally pissing the nutrients away... Just because it didn't work for me doesn't mean others may not benefit from it.

One of the comments mentioned that Mike and Karin are not paid to provide the regimen. I don't believe that is so. When you place the order on the USANA website Mike or Karin will want you to use a reference code that will provide you with a "discount". I believe they are then compensated in some fashion as a seller/marketer for the products. I could be wrong, but that was the feeling I got.

Good luck, hope it helps you.

 

Personal Error -- Correction.

In my brief review of the USANA ingredients above, I noted the low concentrations of most of the ingredients. But I failed to notice or take account of the fact that these are taken 4 times daily, thereby providing useful (if not always ideal) dose concentrations.

Consequently (except for vitamin D, which still stands), disregard my inadequate dosages comments. The other comments remain applicable, however.

--John of Ohio

 

Thanks, John. I was also skeptical about the bioflavonoid content. But I always like to consult an expert.

Plus, HalS' comment that Spencer and Henderson are likely involved in USANA distribution puts me off even more.

I'll finish my month's supply, but I'll not re-order and I'll stick with JOH. I have a lot of bad days, but I can only imagine that they would be worse without your supplements.

Bless all,
Ron

 

I hope you get more relief than you have Ron! Prayers going up for you.

 

I wish it was not legal to send prescription meds through the mail, I have a full filled prescription of valcyclovir with refills ( I am sticking with acyclovir), it bothers me so much so many on here want to get it and can't, and my bottle is sitting here helping no one. But I did research it and it is federal offense.

 

Personally .. If I was going the VMS route I'd do JOH's regimen instead of a pyramid scheme vitamin regimen where individuals are profiting.

Good luck to you whatever you decide to do.

 

Ron - I just felt it was worth mentioning. Neither Mike or Karin have stated whether or not they are compensated that I have seen.

Please don't let my comments keep anyone from trying this regimen as on option, it may work for some. I'm just one of those folks that like to know someone's motive for offering a solution. If it is to profit, then that's fine, say so. Then I can filter through the facts and make a decision to follow or not.

While on this topic, John of Ohio, I would like to thank you for sharing your research with the world. It has helped me and many others. I have seen in recent comments on this forum where you have been questioned and ridiculed. This is a public forum and that is there right. Despite those folks, I am sure there are more people on here that appreciate your updates and responses to comments, and hope you continue to do so.

God bless,
Hal

 

Hal,

Thanks. I take no offense. This is a public forum, of diverse views and pespectives.

And I'll be that if I could sit down at a meal with most everyone here, it would be a delightful experience. We all confront the same or similar complex of frustrations --- doctors, treatments, and less then desired outcomes (including those in my regimen for some).

It's an honor to be able participate and contribute here. No other site like it.

--John of Ohio

 

HalS, in Mike's e book or web site, he does mention that you can enter a code or something on the USANA web site to get a discount, but I didn't see a way to do that.

USANA also offers a 10 percent discount if you subscribe to automatic monthly renewal. But it still costs a fortune.

Anyway, like you, I don't mind people making a profit, but I'm natural born skeptic.

Bless all,
Ron

 

I'm going to offer you an alternative to try before investing hundreds of dollars in supplements: a whole food, plant-based diet for 30 days. It doesn't have to be vegan, but it does have to be low in animal fat and relatively low in lean animal protein (the less the better, most likely). The reason? Because the anti-inflammatory, anti-oxidant, immune-supporting vitamins, minerals, phytochemicals, sugars, proteins, and fats in fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, and whole grains work synergistically with each other to produce a much higher net effect in vivo (in the body) than any dietary supplement or combination of supplements is capable of. There are thousands and thousands of studies that have proven this both in vitro (petri dish) and in vivo (living system, i.e. animal or human). The details of how and why are not entirely understood, but the plausibility is.

Many peddlers of VMS cry conflict of interest within the medical and pharmaceutical industries or inablity to patent a natural substance. But that is total B.S. The VMS industry as a whole is predicted to bring in $34.7 billion dollars by 2016. While Big Pharma brought in a 10-fold amount of profit in 2011, they are also multinational companies with much larger audiences, so to speak. Clearly, the VMS industry is no different in its conflicts of interest. They are not an allturistic industry that just wants to help people. They want to sell a product just the same as Big Pharma. To make matters worse, they are held to no standards or regulation to prove that the claims they make are actually true. They fund studies just the same as Big Pharm, but they often "publish" these studies in sham journals that sound official, but are in fact not peer reviewed or held up to any ethical standards of practice.

While I appreciate distrust of the medical profession after so many of us have failed to get any relief from standard medical care. But there is risk in taking high doses of dietary supplements over long periods of time, which is clearly what is being promoted here. I don't have time to cite all of the studies that have shown increased risk of disease, specifically cancer and death, that have been "correlated" with use of various VMS, but many do exist. Nor do I have time to review the multitude of the studies cited by proponents of VMS as "proof" of the flawed conclusions they have come to. But being that this is what I have a formal education in and have worked in for the past 15 years, I HAVE reviewed hundreds of studies over the years looking into various claims of VMS that my patients/clients have brought to my attention. And rather than become convinced of their safety and effectiveness, I have become all the more convinced that they are either completely useless or have strong potential for negative side effects, if you will, with long-term, high-dose use. Please don't be lead to believe that VMS are harmless. Any substance, drug or natural product, taken at therapeutic doses for extended periods of time have the ability to produce known, as well as unknown, unintended and undesireable side effects.

If you'd rather first attempt the lower cost, higher benefit approach of getting the beneficial effects of vitamins, minerals, and phytochemicals, I recommend referring to The Plant-Powered Diet, by Sharon Palmer. She promotes a vegan diet, with lots of scientific evidence to back it up. However, I believe it is possible to include small amounts of animal products in the diet, if desired.

Yesterday at work we discussed the case of a woman with an aggressive tongue cancer. She was evaluated several months ago by one of the best head and neck surgeons in the world which we are fortunate enough to have working in our clinic. He of course recommended surgery followed by chemo and radiation as her best hope for a cure. She told the doctor that she was very into a "holistic approach" and opted to try VMS and herbs for 3 months first. Well, you can guess what happened. The cancer grew and she ended up having most of the inside of her mouth resected and half of her tongue cut out. The surgeon went on to explain that despite her "holistic approach" and use of alternative medicine, she continued to drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes this entire time. The moral of the story is that whether one chooses conventional medicine or alternative therapies, neither are going to offer much benefit if the other risk factors (poor quality diet, exposure to known toxins/carcinogens) are also not addressed.

The therapeutic value of a healthy diet is underappreciated. But, if after ensuring that your diet is providing a variety of whole, nutrient-dense foods, I highly doubt that any VMS is going to provide substantial relief. For the record, I tried JOH in the beginning of Meniere's journey and personally had no change in my symptoms at all. So, despite my background, I was also desperate for an answer. For me, VMS was not it.

 

Thanks, Katniss. I agree that diet is major. I've been a vegetarian for 36 years, but I need to eat more fresh, raw veggies and fruit.
I'll get busy!

 

I'm right there with you, Rondrums. While knowledge is power, it would be nice to have a personal chef to clean and prepare all those fruits and veggies.

 

Katniss, can you describe the biochemical or biomechanical mechanisms by which your dietary approach to Meniere's brings continuing sympomatic relief? Does it suppress herpes viruses, and how so? Does it increase inner ear circulation, thereby stopping hydrops, and by what mechanism?

Conversely, tell us how a contemporary American diet promotes Meniere's symptoms. If a conventional diet is adverse to those with Meniere's, why then don't the majority of those who eat such diets end up with Meniere's?

As a scientist, I like to understand the biomolecular or biomechanical processes that bring on-going chronic, not acute, symptomatic relief.

--John of Ohio

 

Of course, those studies have not been done. But neither have they been done using VMS in the Meniere's population. In fact, there have been no studies describing with any definitiveness the underlying etiology of Meniere's. That being said, your treatment, along with the dozens of others with limited effectiveness, conventional or alternative, are based on correlation, testimonial, or hypotheses indirectly drawn from available literature. So no one, you nor I nor anyone else, is able to say with any degree of certainty that what we propose will work or why.

My point is only that what the literature has shown time and again is that the beneficial of effects of micronutrients (vitamins, minerals, phytochemicals, and the like) are highest when obtained from whole food sources, NOT supplements. Nutrients work synergistically. There is NO - none - definitive proof that VMS have beneficial health effects except in the setting of deficiency. The body systems are extraordinaryily elegant and complicated in their use and management of all nutrients. The more is better mentality has not been proven safe and effective with any of these substances.

I am not denying that your VMS regimen has helped some people. But everyone needs to understand that there may be inherent long-term, under-appreciated risk in taking VMS over time. In addition, can you be certain that those products do not contain heavy metal or other contaminants? No, you cannot because there are no safety mechanisms in place, except the word of the manufacturer, that the raw materials are in fact pure. Since it costs money to test every batch of raw materials prior to the manufacturing process, it is a crap shoot.

What is currently understood about some of the more well-studied vitamin supplements, such as Vitamin E and beta carotene for example, is that if a person has existing cancer cells in the body, as many of us might have at any given time, those nutrients have been found to INCREASE the rate of growth of those cells. As none of us can be certain that we don't have a small cancer in our body, this is a risk one has to be aware of and willing to take. VMS have not all been studied extensively for such potential risk, so...

As is well-understood, some medications used in the management of autoimmune diseases have a known side effect of increased long-term cancer risk. People considering the use of these drugs have the luxury of deciding if that is a risk they are willing to take. With VMS, it's a shot in the dark. What is the risk? Minimal, moderate, or high of having unwanted side effects down the road. I know you often cite a lack of proof of any risk from taking VMS, but it's out there as is the plausibility of said risk. These are not inert substances. If they were, then why would you or anyone else suggest they have the cability of altering a metabolic pathway or body system? With all due respect to you, John, your understanding of the literature is limited and naive. You and I will have to agree to disagree.

I don't mean any ill will to you or anyone else, but I feel obligated to offer another point of view so that people can make an informed decision. As there is no harm and likely plenty of benefit from getting ones nutrients from a whole foods, varied diet with lots of fruits and vegetables, it seems a good place to start. There is no magic bullet in VMS.

 

Btw, the viral theory of MD is just that - a theory. If all the details were worked out and plausible from start to finish, then AVs would be the first line treatment for MD. It's not because there are reasonable doubts about it. There is no conspiracy. AVs may be effective for some people, for some period of time because they reduce the burden on the immune system, taking it below some necessary threshold. But as many, many of us have experienced, AVs have not resulted in long-term effectiveness in suppressing our MD symptoms. As everyone's circumstances and underlying health are different, it is plausible that some do get longer relief than others and that has to be acknowledged. Of course, we all take whatever relief we can get. But we have to admit the limitations, too.

 

That brings up a curious question. I would like to know the length of time of relief of MM symptoms from taking AV's that Dr. Gacek has documented in his clinical practice. I am not sure anyone has asked him this.
I highly doubt his patients who do relief from AV's is just short term.
But I would like to know, if anyone is seeing him or speaking to him soon.

Also what is considered long term? 1 year, 5 years 10 years?