Discussion in 'Your Living Room' started by jaypr, Feb 16, 2012.
Really? That's your response?
I have no idea if the acu in your name has anything to do with acupuncture. If it does, I'd really love to hear how one goes about selecting an acupuncturist and what to expect.
The one I consulted was a medical doctor who was also certified in TCM. I was not living in the U.S. at the time. I went to her specifically because she was also an M.D. and thought it would have more bearing on what she did as an acupuncturist. She couldn't help me but she was the first to tell me that after twelve 45-minute sessions. I never saw an acupuncturist after that so perhaps my opinion is biased as it is based on a single experience.
I am open to learning and knowing more. I'll be honest - when it comes to alternative medicine, I don't know what exactly to look for but I feel I am denying myself opportunities because of this. I've tried a lot of alternative practices but just once each. They didn't work so I gave up. That is not to say that I have had wild success with medical doctors. I haven't. Like June says, it's pretty much hit and miss with the scientific body too. I am not one of those science at all costs, MDs have it down pat people nor am I all for alternative medicine as being the cure-all thing. My beliefs lie in the middle as with most everything.
PubMed is a good place to start.
Alternative medicine is a joke IMO. Just don't know about having some Chinese dude/lady put needles all over my body and then send small electrical currents/srimulations through my body.
Dam, they do make a good Mongolian beef and fried rice though--- had some at the mall food court today.
I would consult with a knowledgeable dr. who has experience in migraine.
Here is a site i found. http://apps.who.int/medicinedocs/en/d/Js4926e/
Scott, while i dont always agree with you, i never thought of you as having to resort to ethnic 'humor' to make your point. Is that now considered science-based?
Yes--- they make dam good food, I consider that a scientific fact. ----- they always have the longest food line at the food court and they even give out free samples.
I love the Chinese! Let's hope they don't call our debt to them to be paid or else we will all be fucked!
By the way June, his name is not Scott---- it is Larry King, one of the all time great interviewers.
Thanks for the link. I had a good look through the section titled 'Diseases and Disorders that can be Treated with Acupuncture' and couldn't find 'Migraine' on any of the lists. Did I miss something?
I didnt look for migraines specifically, i was just pointing to something that looked credible on on the subject. I do think i saw the word headache on one of the lists. I did not investigate furtherto see if it said yae or nae on headache or if it deilled down to migraine from there.
Migraine and headache are not the same thing. On this forum, with the numbers of migraineurs and the level of understanding, knowledge and experience we collectively have on migraine I don't think we need to expend further effort in yet again making that distinction.
For the sake of argument let's say the WHO is credible on this subject. They provide four separate categories of conditions which may benefit from acupuncture, with level one being the highest and four being the weakest. Migraine doesn't appear on any of the lists.
I understand that migraine and headache are no the same thing. My husband suffers from occular migraine and he does not get a migraine headache. I have had a migraine headache in my time though it is not part of my hydrops.
I was not asserting anything about migraine being or not being cured by acupuncture. I have not made any effort to research that as it has not been part of my problem. Intrepid wondered aloud where there might be somemore information on acupuncture and i posted that link in response.
Speaking in very genreal terms - not in relation to migraine, menieres or hydrops, just in the most gemeral terms, imwould be surprised of acupuncture survived for centuries withiut any benefit. I would not be in the least surprised if the actual way it achieves those benefits is not known to either eastern or western medicine. I would also not be surprised if it works for somethings and not for others. I would not be surprised if despite its age, it is in its infancy. Kind of like psychiatry and surgery and pharmacology. But thats just my surmising. I wouldnt try to persuade you or anyone else of that.
The argument from antiquity, that it's been around for thousands of years,is a logical fallacy. The Chinese themselves are somewhat ambivalent about acupuncture. I'm taking Wikipedia as my 'source' here as it's the most impartial I can muster. Acupuncture's popularity in China has less to do with efficacy and more to do with politics:
In the early years after the Chinese Civil War, Chinese Communist Party leaders ridiculed traditional Chinese medicine, including acupuncture, as superstitious, irrational and backward, claiming that it conflicted with the Party's dedication to science as the way of progress. Communist Party Chairman Mao Zedong later reversed this position, saying that "Chinese medicine and pharmacology are a great treasure house and efforts should be made to explore them and raise them to a higher level." Under Mao's leadership, in response to the lack of modern medical practitioners, acupuncture was revived and its theory rewritten to adhere to the political, economic and logistic necessities of providing for the medical needs of China's population. Despite Mao proclaiming the practice of Chinese medicine to be "scientific", the practice was based more on the materialist assumptions of Marxism in opposition to superstition rather than the Western practice of empirical investigation of nature. Later the 1950s TCM's theory was again rewritten at Mao's insistence as a political response to the lack of unity between scientific and traditional Chinese medicine, and to correct the supposed "bourgeois thought of Western doctors of medicine" (p. 109)
Eastern medicine claims that acupuncture works by stimulating 'qi' (life foce) along 'meridians' (qi pathways) in the body. Neither Eastern nor Western medicine are able to locate qi or meridians.
I don't know if your take is correct or incorrect and as I noted I an not trying to persuade you of any take on the subject. It's ok with me if you don't buy it. If I have a need for a new approach in the future, I will probably research it then with sincerity not to prove or disprove any point of view.
Hey June -- I was laughing at BD's comment in the context of this discussion. From acupuncture to a Mongolian beef meal. I love Asian food and Asian people -- my GF is Asian for heaven's sake.
Well, the WHO list includes acupuncture for Meniere's as category 2, so if you get tired of the anti virals it may be worth a try. Ear meridians are a bitch, qi gets blocked in there all the time.
I am 100% sincere. I've tried acupuncture - have you?
I'm not interested in proving or disproving anything, merely about what is most likely to work (or not) as per the evidence. All treatments cost money. Personally, I consider acupuncture a waste of money, based on what I have read about it and my own experience. If other people get benefit from it and can afford it, good for them.
Doing a search for 'acupunture' on menieres.org produces quite a few threads where acupuncture is discussed. Overwhelmingly, people on this forum don't get relief from Meniere's symptoms using acupuncture. Some do, but the majority don't.
I am glad to hear that. I take your word for it. BD's negative feelings regarding Asian and various other peoples have been expressed here in no uncertain terms more than once so I did not think he was thinking about it the way you just expressed.
No I have not That's what I keep trying to say. I don't know. I have no reason to think it works for Menieres or Migraine (stipulating that we both know that word is not confined to or even primarily relating to headaches). My comments were my surmise that it probably works for some things or it wouldn't have lasted this long. Even if I do try it and it does or doesn't work for - oh say my tennis elbow - I won't be claiming I have the low down on acupuncture. I'm busy right now in my life with other things so I am not going to go off and research it and come here and make claims. You tried it. You have one more case study than I do> Therefore you win!