Migraine Associated Vertigo (MAV) – Misdiagnosed as Meniere's

Taximom is correct, but wheat can be a major problem even if you do not have CD. So, negative tests for CD do not mean wheat is safe, and if wheat makes you sick it doesn't mean you have CD.

Now, it is important to find out if you have CD because if you have CD and continue eating gluten, you can cause permanent damage to your gut because it can trigger an autoimmune reaction, where your body attacks itself. So, I'm not minimizing CD in any way, but it's only part of the story.

 

Hi Papajoe --

You've got it right in the last sentence, that if Candida was a problem for you then it "triggered" your migraines. Every migraineur has their own specific triggers which, as I wrote in the article, is like putting a match to dry kindling. The cause of migraine is rooted in the genes and probably manifests in what is called a channelopathy.

S

 

Pubmed is a very important resource. The data gleaned from Pubmed is crucial, for instance, to the list of anti-viral studied as pointed to by the link in my .sig

But the fact that a particular condition or combination of conditions does not show up at Pubmed does not mean that that condition or combination of conditions don't exist. So the fact that only 10 articles show a link between CD and migraine is a non-starter wrt how common CD is with migraine.

The lack of articles supporting a theory doesn't mean that the theory doesn't have legs. It just means that nobody has studied it sufficiently.

 

True, but pretty much every aspect of every person is genetically rooted. Your dark hair, for instance is genetically rooted.

In my case, the first 50 years of my life were completely devoid of anything resembling migraine. But if I'm being bombarded by neurotoxins, how unique does my genetic makeup have to be before I get migraine symptoms? Is it a genetic abnormality on my part, or would the general population also get migraine-like symptoms if bombarded with a similar amount of neurotoxins?

 

You guys are quite passionate about CD and I know that eliminating wheat stopped your dizziness PJ. Why not write up a post (with TM) in detail about the topic with all that you know and it could be added to the database as another resource.

 

Thought I would throw in that I only heard about Dr Nicholas Silver and this caffeine/ painkiller thing 3 weeks ago. I had been using painkillers weekly and sometimes daily for years thinking nothing of it because I had "days off" and never thought I used that much to worry about it. So just over two weeks ago now I completely stopped all painkillers. I'm quite certain that I have noticed a difference in my pain levels. My hands don't feel stiff in the morning anymore and when I do get headaches or neck pain it fizzles out on its own after a few hours. I keep knocking back the water and stretch a lot while on a computer and that seems to be working really well. One less drug in my system has to be a good thing.

Here's an excellent talk on chronic migraine that everyone should listen to. I think it's the best and most accurate thing I've listened to on migraine to date. This guy really knows his stuff.

http://www.mvertigo.org/audio/Nicholas_AGM_2009.mp3

and this was a handout that went with the talk:

http://www.mvertigo.org/articles/Nicholas_migraine.pdf

S 8)

 

Well, I don't know much about CD, other than I don't have it (I've been tested). And I've already written a number of topics about my experiences.

I'm not really trying to give you a hard time, but while there is probably a genetic component to migraine, I doubt it is totally genetic in all cases, and I want to make that point for one important reason. If you believe that migraine is simply genetic, then you believe it can't be cured (controlled is not cured).

While I don't believe that every case of migraine can be cured, TM has shown that CD can cause it and that being gluten free can cure it. I've found that Candida can cause it, and that being treated for Candida can cure it. To say that it's simply genetics removes those possibilities.

 

This is absolutely correct. There is no cure for migraine. The plan of attack is to first discover then manage/ reduce/ eliminate your own personal triggers (such as gluten or wheat in your case). If you can do that successfully and you don't have a nasty case of chronic migraine then you will probably live your life symptom free. Some will need a medication to knock it out on top of trigger elimination. Sounds like you've done just that (trigger elimination) and have succeeded which is great. Long may it last!

Have a listen to the talk I posted if you get a chance. It's very easy listening and incredibly informative.

S

 

That's what I disagree with. I'm certainly not saying that everyone can find a cure, but I believe some can.

In my case it's not as simple as eliminating triggers. As far as wheat, last year at this time even a small amount of wheat was a big trigger for me. Now I can eat it again without ill effect. I ate two chili cheese burgers on Saturday (w/ buns). While I choose not to eat a lot of wheat now, I was at a rodeo watching my grandkids barrel race and food choices were limited. So I ate wheat with no ill effects. Last year at this time two buns would have pushed me over the edge.

I think you're missing out on the possibility of chemically induced migraine.

 

I highly recommend others to listen to this. It's excellent. He is so easy to listen to and to understand what he presents, and he keeps it interesting even though it's long, it is worth it. I let it run as I went about my business. The write-up outlines his discussion and is good to save for future reference.

 

Just don't watch the graphic! LOL dizzying

 

The link studio has provided is excellent. I just spent over an hour reading the whole thing. I have two comments, though:

1) The author claims that cervicogenic (neck) pain will NEVER cause headaches or gead pain. This is simply untrue. If one has muscle problems of the neck, especially in the sternocleidomastoid muscle, the pain in the front and sides of the head can be extreme. Dizziness is also present in such a case.

2) The author claims that tension type headaches NEVER have dizziness as a symptom. This, too, is false. If the origin of the tension headache is muscular (i.e. as described in point #1, above), the tendency to have dizziness along with the tension headache is very likely.

Otherwise, a very useful and accurate publication. It is one that I will supply to my doctor as we look at ways to combat my chronic headache problems.

 

Thanks Perses for your input. I have found it to be the case that even though I respect and acknowledge the expertise within any particular field, one person's conclusions are rarely absolute. I can even find fault with Dr. Buchholz (and anyone that knows how I have promoted his book for years and how he is the reason my life began to turn around for the better) but I look at the overall information and am able to benefit.

 

I think we all fall into the Variants of MAV or MM.... However each persons body will react differently to different treatment. Thats why sites like this are great for information. especially since anything in this umbrella is so "Grey"

 

Hey Perses,

Thanks for your take on this.

I am personally skeptical about TTH causing dizziness. For quite some time I was confused in that I experience migraine as TTH -- pain in the neck and shoulders which radiates into a band around the head and soreness behind the eyes. It's always bilateral. I remember seeing a neuro here in Sydney considered a top dog (was about 85 years old and very old school IMO) in migraine and he said "you don't have migraine; it's TTH". The dizziness he had no answer for. I know now it's all migraine confirmed by Halmagyi. And so for me it goes like this: migraine causes neck and shoulder pain plus headache which usually appears after a dizzy "aura". Sometimes I'm just dizzy with no pain following and other times just neck and head pain with stoned, spaced out feeling.

Interestingly if neck tension goes unchecked it has caused my cervical spine to jam up requiring physio to get it moving again. When that happens, it appears to trigger more migraine activity which could appear to be a cervicogenic dizziness. Palpating the area will trigger instant dizziness, but once the physio has done it's job this no longer occurs. To me it seems more to be a migraine trigger and not dizziness originating from the cervical region. Even on a good day, a neck massage can trigger symptoms but not always. Other times I'll feel much better from it.

This paper appeared last year. I should grab a copy (although it's in French!).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19946992

• Cervical vertigo: myth or reality?
  
  Abstract
  Patients displaying vertigo associated with cervical symptoms: what is the origin? Diagnosis of cervical vertigo is sometimes retained. It remains very controversial. Indeed there is neither a convincing pathological mechanism nor a diagnostic test. Despite lack of strong benefit evidence, manual therapy can be offered to selected patients.

I'm not certain one way or the other about cervicogenic dizziness but it doesn't appear to affect me although I might have thought so had I thought this was TTH and was unaware of migraine.

S

 

No, we are not passionate. We have simply shown that Celiac Disease, along with gluten intolerance and candida, can cause migraines. I have also posted a study that showed that UNDIAGNOSED Celiac Disease can be a solitary cause of migraines in 4% of those who suffer from migraines.

Regardless of whether you personally believe that migraines can be cured, if you believe, as you said in reply #48, that the plan of attack is to identify one's personal triggers, than you ought to be mention such common triggers in your initial post on this thread. There are several members on this board and others who have found that wheat and/or gluten and/or candida was a major cause, and in some cases, the ONLY cause of their migraines. For you to not alert readers with migraine of this, and still pretend to be interested in "helping" them certainly calls your motivation into question.

 

Thank you Scott (a fellow Aussie!) and Terry for taking the time to do all this.

It has been extremely helpful.

I have been suffering exactly as described right down to the anxiety and neck pain yet have only tried half-hearted things to help myself.

But as I sit here suffering yet again after knowingly eaten MSG, it's time to do something...or continue to suffer. The choice is mine.

I have David Buchholz's book and have just ordered 'The Migraine Brain'.

I love my coffee, I love a lot of processed food, but I want my life back. I am sick of suffering.

I would love to see a website dedicated to MAV with people's stories, all the info in this post and perhaps with some kind of support network.

My family are supportive but don't really understand.

 

Re: Migraine Associated Vertigo (MAV) – Misdiagnosed as Meniere's

I can have both, it's just knowing my body so well to know what kinds are safe, how much, when I can indulge, and when to abstain. In the beginning it is best to avoid all of it, while experimenting, then slowly bring little bits back in, speaking of caffeine, from different sources.  Then see how you do with it. 

And there are many safe processed foods (check out my post about processed meats... http://www.menieres.org/forum/index.php/topic,23599.0.html) without the migraine spiking food additives.  It's a matter of learning to read labels.  The truthinlabeling website has been vital to me in identifying potential triggers and the many names related to msg. Don't forget to watch for nitrates, nitrites, most often used in processed meats, and sulphur/sulfur, which is used to treat dried foods to keep them looking pretty. I think red wine has sulphites, another migraine trigger for many.

 

Thanks for the information. I think I may be a migraine sufferer. I have had the flashes of light and sparkle like floaters before my eyes, while trying to focus my eyes. And I checked it out in the book "the Migrane Brain". All of my symptoms seem to fit. And that momentary vertigo and change of position vertigo has been bothering me. As someone said to me, I may have a silent Migraine and not Meniere's. It would explain some things that I have been having happen to me now.

The flashes before my eys were making me think my eys were going bad or I had something else. I always thought Migraine was a painful headache pain. I never thought it was this.

Birdmom3

Birdmom3

 

Hi Birdmom3,

Someone recently posted a link to visual migraine auras - I can't for the life of me remember which thread it was in so hopefully someone will read this and redirect you. That should give you some kind of yardstick against which to measure or "judge" your own visual symptoms. Also in another thread Perses recently wrote about floaters. The vast majority of the time floaters have nothing to do with migraine and are benign. Again - hopefully someone can chime in with which thread it was on. I did do a quick youtube search and this one is quite good (i.e. awful to watch, but accurate) - at stunningly beautiful Crater Lake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV_37cao38U

Edit: this is the floaters thread http://www.menieres.org/forum/index.php/topic,29052.0.html