If God really loves me

This caught my eye. I read about a lot of this when first interested in it a couple of decades ago, and it is still of interest to me. (It was Neil Young's song "Cortez The Killer" that got me to the library) Fascinating advanced civilizations. They were plundered out of existence because of greed but to make it look all nice and Christian they used religion as their motive and had the blessing of the homeland.

 

Those barbarians were doing it in the name of God to justify destruction and plundering. Religion has been used as a tool for all kinds of hideous atrocities throughout history...crusades, inquisitions, pogroms....

 

The land of Israel is of no strategic consequence to any major nation. It is arid. It has no natural resources to speak of. So why is the land of Israel so coveted? There is no natural reason that I can think of. That leaves supernatural reasons.

 

We're not talking about Israel. Quit using your usual diversion tactic and stick to the previous subject. Check out your historical facts on the Spanish Inquisition and then we will talk about Israel.

You approach Israel from a Biblical perspective and I approach it from a political/historical perspective. There can be no talk. Period.

 

We are comparing civilizations that you brought into the conversation. And no matter how the conquistadors sugar coated it, the conquest was about gold.

 

So, just so I'm clear here - this is all from your point of view not neccessarily anything that can be proven outside of your beliefs, right?

 

Why do you think that the land of Israel is so coveted?

 

What does it matter? It would be argument for argument's sake. You've stated your perspective (Biblical) and I've stated mine (Historico-political). There is no common ground. Pursuing this topic is totally moot at this point.

I will grant you the approach that the explorers "just" wanted gold. It doesn't justify the mass conversions to their religion. Had they "just" taken the gold and run, they'd still have Viracocha, Inti, Mamquilla and the rest. They don't. Why is that? How did Christianity become the main religion of South America?

 

Hmm

 

That is hard to respond to. Really, that was a pretty harsh accusation that we support the 9/11 attacks. I take offense at that.

 

Honestly people.....the Christians I know have felt nothing but miserable for the blood shed in the name of their religion by fanatics in the Middle Ages. It upsets them to know that entire civilizations were wiped out and ancient religions made extinct because some fool in Spain decided to loot foreign lands and exterminate its people. Most react with empathy, horror, sadness. Granted it happened centuries ago but those PEOPLE were someone's mother, father and child with the same emotions, hopes and wants that you and I have.

Hank, you ignore all this, ignore that their gods meant to them what your god means to you, the deaths of their loved ones caused them pain the same way the death of your loved one causes you pain. But you plod on, in denial with your sole focus being holding the flag of your religion up high all concerned and worried about Israel. I don't get it. I don't get you. I'd rather shoot myself in the foot than allow any religion to blind me this way. Sorry man but have a heart.

 

Don't take offense. It's Tom's opinion based on what he's taking away from my replies. He and I will duke it out over pasta sauce recipes

 

It was uncalled for and a completely inaccurate reading of the discussion. I've been following this for 33 pages and nothing supports that conclusion and it is a rotten thing to say if it is not true which it is not.

 

Gold for who?
The Vatican decreed that the natives be converted.  If they didn't convert, they were murdered.  How's that for incentive?  To save their lives, many did but in word only, and that was fine by the church, they just wanted it to look good to justify what they were doing.  Their religious items of gold and silver, their jewelry, their sculptures, were confiscated and all melted down.  Hmmm, I wonder who benefited from that decree and all that wealth?  The conquistadors were just puppets.  Ships and more ships sailed back to Spain loaded with riches.

 

NEVER made that accusation. Where is that?????
Out of this thread now.

 

I think Hank's feathers are ruffled because he thinks I am implying these people were sanctioned to murder and plunder on orders given by God. I don't believe that and I'm not saying that. They were ordered to murder in the name of God, convert in the name of God by their rulers. I think we all get that.

The point you are deliberately choosing to avoid is that OTHER religions were wiped out so Christianity could spread even farther away from Rome and rule. Remember the Church was extremely political way back then. Religion was not spread out of goodness and kindness but out of greed....as Burd points out.

Either way....the comment you made about those Gods not existing anymore because they weren't as strong or worthy or deserving (I can't remember your exact words) was a false statement. Those civilizations were wiped out.

Now if you insist that they don't exist because your God determined in His book that it would be this way...then I'm sorry but you are saying that the God of the Bible sanctioned these murders so He could triumph. That's awful. So hopefully that is not what you are saying.

 

Why did you bring 911 into this post then? It has no relevence to the conversation. Why did you think it was not PC to say that it wasn't right to fly planes into buildings and kill people? Do you think anyone here thinks it is ok to do that? The posts about the conquistadors was talking about the reason for the disappearance of the Inca's which Henry ascribed to another supernatural cause in support of a contention he was making. Historical information was brought up to refute his assertion. Where in that did you find that somehow we would think it was not PC to condemn the 911 hijackers? I absolutely condemn the 911 attacks no matter what their claims to justification may or may not be. It doesn't matter to me how they justify it, it is to be condemned. I want that absolutely clear. I also reserve the right to disagree with anyone about anything without having my patriotism questioned or having it inferred that I am an apologist for the 911 attacks.

 

Francisco Pizarro and his brothers (Gonzalo, Juan, and Hernando) were attracted [to Peru] by the news of a rich and fabulous kingdom, escaping like many migrants throughout the centuries from the even today impoverished Extremadura.

“ There lies Peru with its riches;
Here, Panama and its poverty.
Choose, each man, what best becomes a brave Castilian. ”
—Francisco Pizarro


In 1529, Francisco Pizarro obtained permission from the Spanish Monarchy to conquer the land they called Peru.

 

June, what are you reading that I am not? Tom said it was wrong for folks using Christian banner to kill the Incas just like it was wrong for folks using the Islam banner to fly planes into buildings. Where is he wrong on that? If you say he is wrong, then you must be saying that it was either right for the Inca incident or right for the 911 incident. Are you just not reading his remarks?

 

I am referring to his remark that he would be considered not politcally correct in saying that which was an inference. You can read that too Henry.

Now I am finished with this thread. It has become clearly for the purpose of fighting and I am not interested.