Hmmmm...Are People Here Suffering From Anxiety's Physical Symptoms or Meniere's?

Discussion in 'Your Living Room' started by nassman, Jan 9, 2008.

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  1. nassman

    nassman Guest

    Reading the thread about "anxiety" has once again raised my suspicion that most people on here are not suffering from meniere's, but rather, the terrible physical symptoms of chronic anxiety. I was overwhelmed to see so many people on anti-anxiety meds! This tells me one of two things:

    1) many here are suffering from chronic anxiety which is known to cause severe chronic dizziness, tinnitus, neck, shoulder, and jaw pain, and headaches.

    2) those taking medications for their anxiety may be taking the wrong medication which is causing them to have dizziness and other adverse symptoms.
     
  2. ToniG

    ToniG Guest

    As being formally dx'd with menieres 5x in 5 states by menieres doctors, I agree with you, Nassman. I also know there are alot of self-dx's on the board.
     
  3. Amethyst

    Amethyst She believed she could, so she did.

    Nassman,

    As a child I was dx'd with severe generalized anxiety. I suffered so badly with it and the results of trauma that I was hospitalized for many years. I continue to suffer from anxiety but have conquered the rest of those demons. Never during those many many years did I suffer with this kind of dizziness - be it vertigo or daily dizziness. It wasn't until 2 years ago, starting with hearing loss and tinnitus, did I begin to suffer with this kind of dizziness. In my case it is clear that it is absolutely not attributable to anxiety and my psychiatrist of 21 yrs would be the first to attest to this.

    Amethyst
     
  4. burd

    burd New Member

    Or quite possibly the symptoms are from another source, not meniere's but a migraine-associated issue, nerve problems, bppv, etc.
    I did not have anxiety when all this stuff started with me, but am believing with time that it's most likely not meniere's but migraines, once I understood that migraines can cause all the symptoms of meniere's and not just the generic widely accepted yet very narrow definition of migraines.

    BTW, sometimes self dx's are all some can afford, and even for those that do go to one doctor after another they can get a different dx and opinion from each one so they are not even in agreement amongst themselves. So many misdiagnoses, so many prescriptions written out... Doesn't exactly inspire confidence just because someone has a certificate on their wall.

    I do agree that medications are widely overused and abused. It seems so many have dizziness on their lists of possible side effects. And I do agree anxiety can cause all sorts of unpleasant symptoms too. Just wasn't the case for me.
     
  5. nassman

    nassman Guest

    Amrthyst, I once read that chronic anxiety has a detrimental effect, chemically, on the inner ears and that is why people with anxiety often end up with vestibular disorders. Perhaps, your years of anxiety has led to the vestibular difficulties you face today.

    If I find this data I will post it for you. It was a while back.
     
  6. Rick

    Rick New Member

    ...I had Meniere's for 10 to 15 years with maybe 2 or 3 vertigo attacks a year. Maybe less. Then I started getting them more frequently to the point of 1 sometimes 2 in one week. When the attacks were infrequent, I had no dizziness, brainfog, or fatigue as constant symptoms. Once the attacks were coming weekly, I had the constant dizziness, constant brainfog, and constant fatigue. Once I discovered the "wheat" connection and went wheat free, the fatigue, dizziness, and fog went away.
    ...Today, there is no doubt in my mind that the fatigue, fog, and dizziness were anxiety related. I was so relieved to have finally found the trigger for most of my episodes. Later I would have other attacks (about 1 per month) until I isolated my other triggers. The fatigue, fog, and dizziness did not come back. But I still have the original symptoms of fullness, tinnitus, and hearing loss 24/7.
    ...Now suppose I got an inner ear infection that caused dizziness, fog, and vertigo. That would cause the same anxiety that the Meniere's related vertigo attacks would have caused. Thus the same symptoms would also appear of dizziness, fog, and possible fatigue. So what would happen after the infection was gone? I would think nothing, because the anxiety would be perpetuating the same symptoms. They might see a reduction in vertigo, but would always think the vertigo was going to happen becasue of the anxiety symptoms mimicking the inner ear problems.
    ...And then there's the scenario of a person getting an anxiety/panic disorder and getting misdiagnosed as an inner ear problem if the above symptoms were to happen instead of the other symptoms that go along with anxiety/panic disorder.
    ...Now throw a little BPPV into the equation for some of us and there's another source of the same symptoms.

    ...So I think there could be those here that only have anxiety/panic disorder, and those here that at one time had an inner ear problem and now just have an anxiety disorder, and those who have an inner ear disorder with anxiety/panic disorder on top of that. I really feel for those who had the inner ear problem that went away. When they take the anxiety meds, the symptoms go away leaving them to believe it was anxiety/panic disorder all along, when in fact they did have an inner ear problem.
    Rick
     
  7. patride71

    patride71 New Member

    sorry bro, but i don't buy it at least in my case. i really did not have any anxiety problems prior to the MM. the anxiety i have now seems to be DUE to the mm. plus 3 docs (2 ENT and 1 neurotologist) have dx me with bilateral MM. wish it was just anxiety though....i know the anxiety does not help the MM either, so i'm working on gettting that under control.
     
  8. fcclimber

    fcclimber New Member

    I haven't been on this site long, but I have noticed that posts cover a really broad spectrum. I guess everyone needs a good support network, and this site has some great people.

    If you're taking a poll, I can tell you I'm formally diagnosed by several different docs...Tests back it up, including an ECOG. Because of my long history with the disease, it's very easy to follow the progressive damage. My doc tells me that except for my early onset, I'm pretty textbook.
     
  9. CdnTBear

    CdnTBear Every minute spent in anger is a minute wasted

    It may be that anxiety with some, is a reaction to a particular symptom. I read a post one time about a person who was very anxious about going out in public, because she suffered from drop attacks. Needless to say, she was anxious about it occurring every time she went out. I wouldn't classify that as an Anxiety diagnosis, rather the fallout from current disorder.

    When I had MM confirmed by 3 doctors, and was house bound at one point (middle November), I was quite depressed. I certainly wasn't chronically depressed, and didn't need to be treated for depression. It was temporary and was a result of receiving diagosis and the fact that I was quite debilitated. It was really awful.

    If I could grant everyone here one wish, it would be that they all had very caring and thorough doctors (and health insurance!). I'm very fortunate ... my doctors keep really close tabs on me. My GP will chew out any of my other doctors if they don't follow through and send them their notes about my exams with them, any changes in medications, etc.
     
  10. Chewy

    Chewy New Member

    Nassman, I definately have an anxiety problem. I admit that. At this point doctors tell me mm/mav and bppv are the things I am dealing with and this can cause anxiety issues. I have admitted that the problem is there but I would like to move on and learn how to deal with the symptoms as opposed to just saying anxiety is causing the symptoms. For me in my experience the vertigo came way before the anxiety. It is just these last three years where I have had a multitude of issues and still the doctors say it is just a part of mm/mav and menopausal issues.. I get this feeling very often where I feel like I will go into vertigo and I am unbalanced and it can last for days. Is this anxiety??? or is it a form of dizziness? Let's talk about what can be done if one suffers from anxiety. When I went to a neurologist the first thing he did was give me klonopan. (I never took it.) My point is most of my doctors give out drugs on a constant basis.I do think these drugs mask the problem (and possibly can make one dizzier)but what is the solution? What do you do when you have anxiety? There are so many variants that factor into why we feel the way we do and each one of us is different. Just my two cents. Donna
     
  11. nassman

    nassman Guest

    Hi Donna.

    Thank you for your honesty.

    I will answer your question based on my experience because I have experience with Klonopin.

    I fit under the category of what Rick wrote: more specifically, I believe I had an inner ear virus that caused havoc but eventually went away. However, the constant depression, worry and anxiety I developed (which is natural) because I thought I had meniere's made me experience vestibular symptoms for years even though the virus was long gone. That is the point I am trying to make. People can have a vestibular virus that lasts for months and that even causes some permanent damage but if they develop an anxiety disorder during the course of the virus, they may remain with chronic symptoms well after the virus has died and the inner ear has healed.

    Now, with respect to the klonopin: When I saw Dr. Brackmann at the House Ear Clinic in LA, he asked me to take Klonopin at bed time for one month as an experiment to see if I would feel better. I stubbornly told him "no way" and that "I don't have an anxiety problem". He told me that anxiety is not necessarily something we know we have. He told me that my constant tension, stress, worry, and doom-and-gloom outlook on my future could be wreaking a chemical havoc in my brain. He said that if I took the klonopin to ease those emotions/feelings and I felt significantly better it would be a sign that the inner ear problem had subsided and that, in fact, it was my emotional state causing my symptoms. Believe me, I wanted him to be SO WRONG. But guess what? He was right. I did feel much better, even on the minimal dose of klonopin for only one month. After one month though, I stubbornly refused to continue the klonopin and I fell right back into the "what ifs" and "what if I do have meniere's" routine. This, like magic, made me much worst over night. Eventually, added to my dizziness and tinnitus were chronic headaches, twitches in various parts of my body, etc. I started to think I might have MS...it got worst and worst and so did my symptoms. Much worst than what most people describe here!

    Anyway, I finally snapped out of my misery by FORCING myself to do the things I had stopped: Sports, socializing, clubbing, dancing, drinking, etc. The positive results were intantaneous. Everything subsided and today, every symptom has decreased to non-noticeable levels or disappeared all together.

    Yes, I do have 24/7 tinnitus and that is as a result of the damage the virus did to both my inner ears. I have accepted this and have moved on.

    The brain is powerful. Messing with it either chemically or psychologically can have devastating consequences.

    I just wish more people would understand this.
     
  12. Amethyst

    Amethyst She believed she could, so she did.

    Thank you - sounds interesting. Long-term anxiety has been suggested as the trigger of my MM symptoms. The doctors I've spoken to believe the predisposition was there (2 other family members with it) and that a particularly long bout of stress/anxiety was the precursor....but not the cause of my dizziness. Perhaps this is what you are referring to?

    The constant dizziness I used to experience greatly improved during the 4 months that I worked at VRT. Before VRT walking was difficult and driving impossible so to me it was no wonder I was dizzy all the time - I couldn't get a break from it.
     
  13. shelly3257

    shelly3257 New Member

    Re: Hmmmm...Are People Here Suffering From Anxiety's Physical Symptoms or Menier

    I think for some that may be the case, but I do know that anxiety and depression can develop from dealing with the uncertainties of MM, and some people are therefore put on anti anxiety medicines. I for one am not on anything for anxiety. I went through years of relaxation therapy and learned to head off my attacks and keep myself calm. One ENT tried to put me on a daily dose of Klonopin but it made the dizziness and nausea worse so I didn't take it more than one time and that was it.

    I have had panic disorder and generalized anxiety disorder since childhood and I am in my 30's now. I can very well tell what is anxiety related. The dizziness and other symptoms with that is very different, and least in my opinion from what I have been experiencing for the past few years. I have been to 3 ENT's, 2 or 3 neurologists (I can't remember now) and 2 physical therapists who all said for me it was BPPV and then a couple of years ago an additional diagnosis of MM based on hearing loss and my symptoms although I think the MM diagnosis is wrong and I think it may be MAV instead. I would never self diagnose, I think a doctor, someone who specializes in vestibular problems would have to tell you what is wrong. I set up an appointment at MEEI in Boston to get to the bottom of it, hopefully for the last time because I am sick of not knowing the cause so I can get help, although I know the symptoms of a few things overlap and sometimes its hard to get a correct diagnosis.
     
  14. shelly3257

    shelly3257 New Member

    I would be very interested in reading anything that suggests anxiety disorders can cause vestibular problems. I am making a list of all the possible testing and causes that no doctor has mentioned to me so that I can set up appointments for myself to rule things out and I'm open to anything that this point.
     
  15. Linda1002

    Linda1002 New Member

    This article mentions that anxiety can cause dizziness:

    http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcArticles.nsf/pages/Dizziness_and_vertigo?OpenDocument
     
  16. Chewy

    Chewy New Member

    Nassman, Wow,now I am wondering if my neurologist was right because he told me to take a small dose of klonopin right before bed also and to see if I felt better. Think I'll give it a try and see what happens. I have recently pushed myself to go to the store which is a major thing for me right now..but I did it. Baby steps............... Donna
     
  17. nassman

    nassman Guest

    Thanks Linda,

    Here is an extract from what I have found:

    The second major cause for chronic disorders of dizziness involve other disorders of a chronic nature that can manifest their symptoms in the form of vertigo or lightheadedness or imbalance. The two most common of these would be migraine-associated vertigo and a primary anxiety disorder with or without panic.

    In consideration of difficulties with anxiety in the primary or secondary form, the symptoms of vertigo, imbalance, and lightheadedness are most commonly provoked by naturally occurring stimuli of visual motion activity. Several diagnostic entities or descriptors have been offered--space motion phobia, phobic postural vertigo, and somatoform disorder--all dealing with the anxiety and defensive reactions to vestibular sensations encountered in normal activities that, in the secondary developed anxiety disorder, perhaps trigger conditioned responses to a previous vestibular crisis. Frequently, the description of a patient's symptoms evolves from an initial crisis involving vertigo, ataxia, and nausea and vomiting to more mild lightheadedness and imbalance, though they may still use the terms spinning or dizziness. Rather than having a direct vestibular cause, these chronic complaints are more likely due to a number of other mechanisms--anxiety, avoidance, hyperventilation, orthostasis, and medication side effects being among the most common.

    http://www.treatment-options.com/article.cfm?PubID=NE04-4-1-03&Type=Article&KeyWords=
     
  18. shelly3257

    shelly3257 New Member

    Thanks for the article Nassman.
     
  19. missbelle

    missbelle New Member

    nassman is always full of so much knowledge..i appreciate his honesty on here!!!
     
  20. Amethyst

    Amethyst She believed she could, so she did.

    Thanks Nassman,

    The following was taken from the article you provided:

    "A commonality in chronic disorders of "dizziness" originating from an initial insult to the peripheral or central vestibular system is the lack of a completed central vestibular compensation process. The reason for such a lack of full compensation in a patient most often takes one or more of the following forms: 1) the patient is suffering from an unstable central or peripheral vestibular system process causing repeated changes in the functional status of the system, eg, Ménière's disease, recurrent BPPV, or degenerative condition of the peripheral or central system such as hereditary or autoimmune."

    Seems to me this statement supports the discussion on the other thread this morning regarding chronic dizziness. Damage from the disease can cause daily dizziness while the compensation process occurs. Some recover more quickly than others.

    And the following excerpt supports my earlier statement that VRT is what made the difference with chronic dizziness in my case.

    "The primary treatment modality for the majority of chronic dizzy patients involves the use of vestibular and balance rehabilitation therapy (VBRT)."

    I'm sure however that there are many people out there (and here on the forum) suffering dizziness directly through anxiety/panic attacks. I don't believe I fit into this category. I also have never found and research that links the anxiety (even as chronic as mine) with the debilitating Tullio's Phenomenon I experience.

    Good article!
     

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