Here is my Problem With NUCCA and Atlas Alignment

Discussion in 'Your Living Room' started by nassman, Mar 1, 2007.

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  1. nassman

    nassman Guest

    Well, instead of hinting at it, why don't you tell us what you see in those pictures that tells you that these people have meniere's?

    I am VERY interested in your response as is everybody else, I'm sure....
  2. Henrysullivan

    Henrysullivan New Member

    Hi Joe,

    From your earlier post:

    "As I understand it, the displacement of the C1 vertebra is a motion that does not alter volume. That is to say, if the C1 vertebra moves left and displaces 10 cubic mm of brain material on the left, then it will also open up 10 cubic mm of space on the right side. Surely, this will lessen the amount of pressure gradients that can buildup in other regions of the brain."

    Not really, this area behaves like like a vacuum. When the Atlas displaces tissues to the left, those materials are squeezed. But the materials on the right are squeezed as well. That is because all the materials are joined and in full adhesion. So instead of direct compression like on the left, the materials on the right are in indirect compression, being pulled in tension. When you pull on a foam pillow, some of the fibres are in tension, some are in compression, some are in tension in one direction and compression in the other. It would be a different matter if air could fill a void. Either way, it is not good whether the Atlas is to the left or the right. My Meniere's symptoms were every bit the classic Meniere's description: building fullness, building tinnitus, vertigo, all calm, repeat. This theory explains all of my symptoms and the remedy. I may have more to say on this when I have time.

  3. Linda1002

    Linda1002 New Member

    Hank - Did you also have hearing loss?
  4. Mnme

    Mnme Guest

    Nass, you will likely be surprised to hear that I have told you this many times before. But it's a funny human tendency that we only tend to pull out of posts/situations precisely what we are looking for. For years now, you have always looked for fault in my posts. In fact, you'll probably be doing that right now. But that's your choice. Focusing on refuting ideas is wonderful trait if you are a research scientist... but not so good if you need answers to your own health that aren't in those papers.

    So I'll repeat once again the info that many on this forum took ahold of years ago and ran with. Most have gone now, as they have no need to be here. A few stay and try to share... but it's hard to have to keep repeating yourself. That's why I have writtten this all down. Expensive xrays show a C1 tilt. This is one simple example of what you can see. Instead, look in the mirror. Look in old photos. An xray is just like peeling the skin off... you don't need that. I recall Henry talking of a technique of testing the C1 area by putting your fingers on the jaw and tilting the head back. He is trying to say this too. .

    Good luck with it Nass. I know I unintentionally challenge you, but then you can learn the most from people who do that ... if you allow yourself to. I actually learned heaps from our old debates.

  5. Mnme

    Mnme Guest

    By the way, I'll move away from this thread now, so I'm sorry if I don't reply to any further posts here. I'll start up a nice positive thread for anyone interested in these ideas as soon as I clear the decks a little.

  6. Caribbean

    Caribbean New Member

    Great post mnme................................Sometimes its very hard to continue to control your mind and not lash out.
  7. Henrysullivan

    Henrysullivan New Member

    Yes, my audiology showed hearing impairment in my Meniere's ear. It's not as bad as it could be; I think I got it stopped before it got too bad. I don't know if it will recover. It does not seem to be changing much.
  8. nassman

    nassman Guest

    To Lee:

    Fortunately, I have a life and I do not spend 98% of my time on here so forgive me if I don't remember something that you may have posted a while back that might have not been picked up by me. I was genuinely asking you what you can see in people that have meniere's. If you recall, I have stood behind you 100% on your trigger point theories so, obviously, I do not try to "discredit" you or your work. However, that being said, I must say I am very disappointed with your reply to me.

    To Caribbean:

    You are a coward. If you want to say something negative about me, SAY IT TO ME. Spewing a quote directed at me when I said nothing to you is low.

    If I am banned because of your reaction to me calling a coward, then so be it. I could care less.
    I am sick and tired ofbeing mis-understood, mis-quoted, and getting the responses you have all seen directed at me just because my views seem to be different than the "clique" around here.
  9. Mnme

    Mnme Guest

    Nassman I would just like to add a personal note that has nothing to do with the topic before I go. Although we have clashed on numerous occasions in the past, I have always admired the strength of your convictions. And you certainly have toned down your communication style, as I hope I have (doesn't mean we're perfect, but at least we're trying!). So although we may not always see eye to eye ... I can't help but still like ya! ;D

  10. SpinininOhio

    SpinininOhio New Member


    I have all of the classic symptoms like Linda, Toni and Dizzjo; I fit the textbook description. I have been dx'd with classic Meniere's by two ENTs, a neurotologist and neurologist. But I have gotten serious relief from debilitating vertigo via nucca and massage and lifestyle changes.

    To others who mention it - There is always difficulty communicating clearly because the speaker and the receiver come to the table with differing backgrounds and understandings of words. I believe that most get very serious relief from vertigo from nucca and massage. So far, it appears that Lee and maybe Pardonme have gotten relief from all symptoms with skeletal/muscular therapies. Time will tell if they are 'cured' (whatever that means), but it looks promising, enough to pay attention.

    Medieval Writer - I would LOVE to see the allopathic medical profession take this seriously and do the studies you seek. If you find them let me know. But I also would want to make sure that they are unbiased.

  11. Sarita

    Sarita New Member

    That's exactly my get relief but that's very different from being cured.
    I encourage people to get all the help they can from whatever source they can to feel better
    but to expect that it will "cure" you when you have classic Meniere's Disease is a little far fetched.
    I wish it could be that way and I hope some day soon a cure is found be it through allopathic
    medicine or alternative practices but so far it hasn't happened yet.

    I wish integrated medicine were more diffused. Perhaps that will be the way in the future?
  12. Henrysullivan

    Henrysullivan New Member

    Hi Sarita,

    Is there a cure for a severed limb? Of course not, the damage is already done. Anyone who will not settle for anything less than all symptoms eradicated and all hearing loss restored before they will accept that they are cured will never be cured, and what's more will probably not put themselves in postion to be cured. Hearing loss may be irreversible; but that does not mean that the cause of the hearing loss cannot be cured and more hearing loss prevented.

    I had every classic symptom of MM. I found chiropractic fairly early into the disorder. No longer do I have any of the classic Meniere's cycles. What I am left with is a slight hearing loss, one that may or may not return, and a slight tinnitus, which seams to be getting better slowly. If that is all I have from this day forward, buddy I'm cured! It's like Meniere's got me in a hit and run! What I'm left with is a couple of minor glitches. So yes, Meniere's can be cured, and in many if not most early cases, cured by chiropractic, if you use a reasonable definition of the word, "cure."

  13. cheese

    cheese New Member

    That's a ridiculous claim.

    Even the chiropractic association wouldn't and haven't spruiked a claim like that.

    I believe chiropractic might help some people ....but there is zero, nada, zip, fug all, no evidence whatsoever to say "Meniere's can be cured, and in many if not most early cases, cured by chiropractic"

    No offense intended ....It's just I find that a severe embellishment of the truth if there ever was one
  14. Cheryl

    Cheryl New Member

    Please, Henry, don't start with the "cure" word. There is no cure for Meniere's. Period.
  15. SpinininOhio

    SpinininOhio New Member


    Did you read my second paragraph
    Just wanted to clarify - part of the difficulty communicating I refer to.

    Cheryl - call me an optimist, but I'm hoping against hope that Lee is on to something that maybe someday some people (not all) can call a cure for them.

    Why do we argue and debate? I think - not to convince others who believe what they want (me especially), but to illuminate, provide all sides, which allows others to read and make more informed decisions. That's the high road version; the low road - what else is there to do in NE OH on a Monday night in March. ::)

  16. Cheryl

    Cheryl New Member


    I hope, too, that there will be a cure someday. Everybody hopes for that. I just don't think it's responsible for someone to make a blanket statement at this stage of the game that "Yes, Meniere's can be cured."

    Of course everyone should look at all the ideas that are discussed here and pursue anything that makes sense to them. I'm totally thrilled for anyone who can do anything to feel better.

    I had a VNS 12 years ago. It stopped the vertigo, diminished the tinnitus and fullness and I still have the small amount of hearing in the operated ear that I had pre VNS. But, I'm most definitely not cured and even though VNS worked for me, I would never tell anyone if they want to be cured to have a VNS.
  17. Henrysullivan

    Henrysullivan New Member

    First from Cheese:

    "That's a ridiculous claim...
    I believe chiropractic might help some people ....but there is zero, nada, zip, fug all, no evidence whatsoever to say "Meniere's can be cured, and in many if not most early cases, cured by chiropractic"
    No offense intended ....It's just I find that a severe embellishment of the truth if there ever was one."

    Perhaps I should resort to a proof of my point here.

    Point #1: I had Meneire's, had all the classic symptoms that define Meneire's. Now I no longer have the classic symptoms that define Meniere's. Therefore I no longer have Meniere's. And the cause of those symptoms was addressed solely by the use of upper cervical chiropractic adjustment. I had it; I don't anymore and the reason is chiropractic. There is no other therapy or treatment that I sought or had in any way. Conclusion: Chiropractic cured my Meniere's. That is no embellishment of the truth; that is the truth.

    Point #2: Two reputable and world reknown chiropractors have testified on this forum that in 100% of many, many cases that walked through their doors, a patient suffering with Meniere's showed evidence of cervical trauma in their X-rays. In each case of posters to this site of folks diagnosed with Meneires who have gone for a chiropractic examination, in 100% of the reports the poster has told us that the X-rays indicated upper cervical trauma had occurred in his or her past.

    Point #3: I testify to the fact that Dr. Marshall Dickholtz, founding director of NUCCA, told me in person that in each of 100's of cases of vertigo that have come to him over the years, 100% of them have been cured, solely by virtue of his upper cervical chiropractic methods.

    Point #4: Now the converse of #2 for emphasis: Although I am sure that there maybe one somewhere, no one posting to this forum, diagnosed with Meniere's and who has been to a chiropractic examination, has come away from that examination with the results showing that although they have Meniere's, their upper cervical area showed no sign of trauma.

    Point #5: In view of points 1-5 above, there is no evidence that upper cervical trauma is not the cause of Meniere's, only evidence that upper cervical trauma is the cause of Meniere's.

    Point #6: The only posters to this site (I have not read every post, but every post since I have been here and that I have read) who in any way demonstrate that their Meniere's has been cured, as defined by one or more of the classical symptoms being relieved 100% without surgery, have been cured by chiropractic. No poster to this site has claimed to have been cured by any other means. Folks who have had surgery and who have either had symptoms relieved or perhaps even exascerbated, still have Meniere's, but Meniere's augmented by the effects of invasive surgery, effects which vary from person to person.

    Question: Is it truly irresponsible to make a claim such as to relay the fact that Meniere's can be cured, when I am living proof? In view of the evidence cited above, is it truly irresponsible to submit for consideration that Meniere's is caused by upper cervical trauma? Isn't it true that sooner or later the proponderance of the evidence will judge the case here? After all, there are people right now all over the world who, had I not made such claims would still be stuck with no hope or help with their conditions. Instead, they are seeking help from the only, I repeat, only discipline that can possibly cure their conditions. Many are receiving relief. I believe many will be cured.

    Question: Will upper cervical chiropractic work in all cases? Absolutely not. Why? Several reasons, more that I can even relate; but here are some: (1) the damage may be so great that it is irreveresible, (2) Surgery has changed the equation, (3) Meniere's was originally the result of a cause other than upper cervical trauma. I do not dismiss the postulate that Meniere's can be caused by something unknown to us. After all, you cannot know the extent of things you don't know. But the evidence is that Meniere's in it's vanilla form, and that is the form to which I refer in all my posts, is caused in many more cases than it is not, by upper cervical trauma. I have seen no evidence that can refute that claim. Of course, to refute that claim one must come back here with overwhelming evidence that refutes the evidence I have presented above. One cannot refute what I have written here purely by stating that my claims are irresponsibile. To do so with no facts to back up such a claim, and facts that would refute my points one by one, would itself be irresponsibible. Keep in mind, anecdotal evidence of persons who have gone into remission to the point of "cure" without treatment of any kind only support my case. It is reasonable that cervical trauma can reverse itself by an opposing force brought to bear on the area in question. That is what chiropractic is in the first place. It is not unreasonable that some folks have been cured of Meniere's by the natural course of events, a ride on a roller coaster, a fall on the ice, events that could vicariously jar the upper cervical area back into alignment without seeing a chiropractor.

    Next from Cheryl:

    "Please, Henry, don't start with the "cure" word. There is no cure for Meniere's. Period."

    Hi Cheryl, I think I have addressed you remark above. However I did want to address something else here. Looking back at your posts I see that they have been pretty few, in fact four. So my post earlier must have really brought out something in you. I read your long suffering history and was saddened but gladdened by the way you fought it and have come back from it using the means you had at your disposal. However, your experience with Meniere's is only your experience. I bring to you a completely different one, one I hope that you and others will consider. The fact that you or anyone with Meniere's had surgery potentially changes the equation to a great degree. My hope is to reach people before they get to that point and try something that is completely harmless that has at least a chance to "cure" them. By portraying that Meniere's has no cure, when you really don't know that, is to some degree irresponsible in its own right and discouraging to others who otherwise might find relief.

    Good luck and good health to all,

  18. Caribbean

    Caribbean New Member

    Hank, You should be running for President. You certainly have a way with people and words..........
    "A great soft sell" and you don't take no for an answer.
    Did you ever sell Time-Share????? Id bet you could sell Ice to an Eskimo or Sand to an Arab.
    Anyway I admire your very smooth style.
    Don't give up with what you believe in.

  19. pardonme

    pardonme Guest

  20. Henrysullivan

    Henrysullivan New Member

    Thanks, Larry. That means alot.

    Much respect,


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