Heaven & Hell and the afterlife through my eyes...

Discussion in 'Your Religion & Spiritual Corner' started by Chris0515, Aug 14, 2010.

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  1. Chris0515

    Chris0515 New Member

    Yeah but why would you be any different than my sisters who behaved 99% of the time and rarely got spanked or whooped, but when they did they probably hated it happening at that time but did not hate my parents in the long run. And if and when I have a child they are going to be spanked too because if he or she is anything like I was or some of my brothers, then they will laugh at the idea of a timeout or taking toys or television away(which was the case with us which leaves the next step being physical pain). I have seen people who don't spank their kids and only believe in timeouts and........they're brats.
     
  2. corona

    corona New Member

    I don't know how to answer that Chris. I don't know anything about you or your siblings or the trouble you guys got into etc.
    All I'm saying is that not every adult was submitted to corporal punishment as a child, not every parent feels the need to do that and not every adult who wasn't hit turned into a brat. I would comment on what you said about how you plan on raising your hypothetical child but I have a feeling you won't like it.
     
  3. Aladdin

    Aladdin Guest

    Gosh - I know some children you just look at wrong and they straighten out their behavior if and when it needs adjusting. I also know children who need a swift tap on their arse to really get their attention. No one is advocating beating and hitting a child in anger or frustration but I think once in awhile an attitude adjustment may need to start with a rear - end adjustment. I was a child advocate I have seen abuse and neglect - so no need to go there - I can count on my fingers how many times my children got a swift tap on their arse...neglect and abuse can come in many shapes and forms - verbal, manipulation, mental - etc. - so just because a person may not spank their child doesn't mean that they are not abusing or not neglecting their children in another fashion...and on the other end of this people who hit their children in anger and well I've seen a lot of abuse cases and their is something so dark and sad about these children that I can not begin to erase that from my soul.

    I have a healthy fear - or some could term it respect for my father - he's never beat me but I've never crossed that line either - I think a lot of children have lost respect for their elders and it makes me saddened.

    Chris, you are right. Hold on to your belief in God and a heaven. As you said if you and I are wrong than 'so what'...but if we are right than 'oh my' to those who didn't believe. It hurts my heart to write that part - knowing a lot of people I admire and even love may not be in heaven with me one day. Worst part of believing in a God and heaven is that if your heart believes it and it is true (which I believe) than you will go to heaven. Worst part of following others who are smart and kind and good people but who don't believe in God and encouraging you to not follow your path towards God/Jesus and a heaven - well that my friend is eternal hell...not heaven.

    If we follow Jesus' most simple and profound commandment - to love each other and treat our fellow man in love....than honestly, the rest of life is just a simple walk with the footsteps of Him.

    I wasn't going to post - as I am still so tired and recovering from vertigo - but well sometimes your inner gut tells you to - even though - you wish to not input into possible drama or long tedious explinations and posts...
     
  4. Chris0515

    Chris0515 New Member

    I appreciate the comments Aladdin and it's nice to see you still checking in. :)

    And as for the disciplining of kids go every child is different and every parent will handle it the way they feel necessary, and there are those who don't need much disciplining and others who make you wanna tear your hair out. But what I am seeing ALOT of these days is kids who have no fear or respect for their parents wether it's the ghetto or the wealthy suburbs, and I'm also seeing parents who put in little or no effort raising them once they get to be let's say 13 - 14 yrs old, and so they then start raising themselves as a result. Whereas my parents knew where we were every minute of the day til our senior years of high school, and GOD HELP YOU if my dad had to come looking for you because you never checked in.
     
  5. June-

    June- New Member

    My siblings and I did not fear corporal punishment from our parents. (We feared 'the look' though.) We did however tow the line. We knew exactly what was expected and ours was not a child centered house. Adults ruled. About that there was no question. It's about attitude. The parents' attitude. We learned what was expected of us and we grew to expect that of ourselves. None of us were every disciplinary problems as children or adults beyond the usual. Not hitting a child is not the same as telling him the world revolves around him. And hitting doesn't teach them to exercise self-discipline imo. Expectations, consistency and time put into the effort do.
     
  6. corona

    corona New Member

    ::) ::) ::)

    Were there more smart, kind and good people in this world, it wouldn't be going to $**t the way it is...regardless of a belief in God.
     
  7. Chris0515

    Chris0515 New Member

    Yeah but what if you have a complete BRAT that constantly back talks you and flat out doesn't respond to any timeouts and/or groundings - what then?
     
  8. corona

    corona New Member

    Seriously Chris....you turned your life around after a ton of issues with addiction and drinking. YOU did it. Sure you must have prayed and asked for divine guidance or whatever but YOU did it because YOU wanted to.

    So you know....why you were someone with attitude and a total brat as a kid..only you know that. With 8 kids, I'm thinking it's easy for a few to slip under the radar and not get the 100% attention some of you needed. I have two and I have to make a lot of time to interact with them, talk to them, make friends with their friends, be involved in their lives and that still isn't enough after a 40 hour work week and a full time university enrollment. I can't imagine having six other children and having to give them all equal attention.

    You say you have ADHD. Well, what you call being a brat, I call the consequences of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Drug addiction fits like a glove with ADHD and I don't know your history but I wouldn't be surprised if you were hooked on cocaine because it acts on dopamine which paradoxically calms ADHD.

    If your parents did not know all this (and I bet you anything they were excellent parents), I'm sure they hit you, yelled at you, threw you out the house and did whatever to control you. They didn't know how to deal with your ADHD. It doesn't mean you were a bad kid or they were bad parents...just lacking in knowledge (the same knowledge that gets crapped on in this forum).

    Would I raise my boys the same way? No. There is much more info on learning disabilities, ADHD, and various deficit disorders. I work with kids with behavior issues all day long.

    A swift tap on the butt is a parent's way of minimizing the guilt he/she feels when striking a child. Swatting, whooping, popping, rapping....all euphemisms for HITTING. Stop doing it. It's not healthy for their self esteem and for their little hearts...they may not feel the physical pain but they sure do feel the emotional one. YOU are the one they love above all people and every tap, rap, swat, whoop is not only a mixed message but a betrayal of trust on the part of the one they love....and YES it carries over into adult relationships when trust is missing and folks get involved in all kinds of crap.

    Do your reading, learn your stuff and force yourselves out of this little box that says, "I survived spankings so my kids will too." It's a cop out.

    These may be your kids when they are young but they are members of society also when they move out of your homes. How you raise them, how you educate them, how you treat them, how you respect them IMPACTS US ALL. You are not raising your kids, but contributing members of society. Somehow certain parents seem to forget that...then we wonder what the hell happened to manners, to charity, to kindness, to intelligence, to marriage, to society, to our country, to the whole freaking world. OUR KIDS happen. And it starts in our homes. God isn't going to fix this. But YOU can...with your child.
     
  9. Chris0515

    Chris0515 New Member

    Well Corona; the whole drug addiction thing comes from who I began hanging around with at around 17 yrs old, and these people were all 3 or 4 years older than me and were in a garage band that I was invited to watch one day(after always watching them from across a chainlink fence). And before that I was heavily into sports and was a very good soccer player with two scholarships on the table, and I had no interest in drugs or anything else that would hinder me from playing sports. But the beginning of the end began the summer before my senior year when I began hanging around this garage band in my neighborhood, and eventually I was offered weed and was eventually talked into smoking it because I wanted to be and feel "cool". Well after that I began to smoke it more & more & more to the point I was skipping classes and soccer practice my senior year, and next thing I know I got suspended from school for 2 weeks - kicked off the team - and then bye bye to those scholarships. So that is how all that got started and I spent the next 8-9 years getting deeper & deeper into the world of drugs.

    And as far as my behavior as a kid I think alot of it was wanting lots and lots of attention and not getting it, and my parents did the best they could trying to entertain all of us and keeping track of our lives. So getting in trouble was a way to get that attention I guess, but I would get into so much trouble that I would have to get a whooping for it I guess because it's what scared me the most.
     
  10. corona

    corona New Member

    Did you ever do coke?
     
  11. Chris0515

    Chris0515 New Member

    Yes, I have mentioned before that I overcame a 3 year addiction to it; but no it did not calm me down as you suggested but used to get me pumped up and make me arrogant & cocky instead.

    And hypathetically speaking Corona if I was your son and had the exact same personality that I did back then, your methods would have not worked on me at all and I would've defied you over & over and wouldn't have worried about the consequences.
     
  12. Steve333

    Steve333 New Member

    chris,

    i'd be dishonest if i said i have no fears. sometimes i'm afraid of the process of dying and the suffering that might come with it. usually the fear is put to rest when i draw on my faith in god's promises and the assurance of eternal salvation through christ.

    it sounds like you've been through a lot and i admire your determination. there may be certain things we disagree on but i've learned a lot about you and others from this thread. i've learned a lot about myself, too.

    aladdin, i sense that you have been through some pretty tough times but your trials have only strengthened your faith. you demonstrate the fruit of the spirit.

    yes, henrysullivan, we share the same foundation and that is the living christ, his teachings and his gift of salvation. we stand on the same rock so whatever we disagree on is only minor in the big picture. man, you must type 100 words a minute and that is something i'm working on.

    bless you all.

    steve
     
  13. Chris0515

    Chris0515 New Member

    I almost just spit ice tea all over my keyboard when I read that Steve! :D
     
  14. corona

    corona New Member

    What I can tell you is that testing is done very early on in school districts. Medication is not forced down the throat of any child but extensive testing is done to understand what is going on with the child. Jim will be able to tell you way more because this is his job in a school district. In my classroom, we work very closely with district psychiatrists, behavior specialists, clinical psychologists for neuropsychological assessments as well as instructional support for classroom management. Kids still slip under the radar since issues like ADHD manifests itself differently in boys and girls. In boys, behavior is usually the first indicator since boys are overtly aggressive. Parents are invited to be extremely involved by the teachers and specialists so they can figure out what is going on and come up with treatment plans.

    Read, learn, get informed, ask for help, talk to those who know more. I am not a one-person show in the least bit. Parents have to be like amateur scientists. It's part of the job description. We need to observe our kids more closely, notice what the heck is going on and work to find a solution if there is one. Never, ever give up on your kids. If you do, who else is left?

    What's important is that you have a loving relationship with your parents. They are your friends and you guys are close. That's what matters the most.
     
  15. Chris0515

    Chris0515 New Member

    Yeah there were no such things as ADD or ADHD back then even if it existed, it just wasn't thought of or ever acknowledged. And it is sooooo difficult to tell or psycho-analize any of these cases with a broad stroke, because then there are several cases of kids who were not spanked and hardly ever got into trouble as a kid, but then grew up to be a serial killer or rapist without a troubled past or childhood.

    Oh and btw Corona my mom passed a year ago, but you may not have known that or read it on here yet.
     
  16. June-

    June- New Member

    You should have known my mother. :D btw, there was no time out when we were growing up, hadn't been invented. Neither had grounded. I think people including kids respond to authority. Some people project it and some don't. My parents did not tolerate back talk. It's about expectations, authority, not being manipulated by the little darlings or buying a load of crap from them. Calm begets calm and excitement begets excitement. And kids need jobs at a very young age, responsibility and also to be worn out. They need to not be bailed out and experience the consequences of their actions. We didn't get coddled at school either. Treating a 17 year old like a child is ridiculous imho.
     
  17. Chris0515

    Chris0515 New Member

    Trust me June we grew up in a low income area with an ex-military vet & hard working father always around, and so there was no coddling or spoiling of any kind going on. And they did not tolerate back talking either but I kind of pushed the envelope on that until they finally did get all pissed off, and then I was probably popped in the mouth and sent to my room at that point.
     
  18. June-

    June- New Member

    I don't know how to explain it but I think kids pick up on the energy of adults around them. If everyone is aggressive, excitable, mouthing off etc so do kids. Kids emulate what they see, not what they are told to do. And sometimes if one parent is overly strict then the other or gramma tends to go the other way and set up an escape route for the kid to play one against the other. Of course I have not raised any kids so this should be taken with a grain of salt. ;D
     
  19. egross

    egross New Member

    Has anyone read any books written by Raymond Moody. He wrote books about near death experiences. He interviewed hundreds of people who died for over 20 minutes and were resucitated. Very fascinating. Most all went through same experience with seeing tunnel, going through the tunnel to the bright light, being met by loved ones who previously died and going through a life review. Not one where they were made to feel "bad". They reviewed they're life in a detached way. When they were told it wasn't their time yet and had to go back they were angry, they didn't want to go back, they were so happy, felt so light and so free. When they were resucitated they were angry at first and felt very heavy and uncomfortable in their bodies.

    So as not to be unbiased or "influenced" he later interviewed young children who died and were brought back to life. Their stories were unbelievably moving. You knew they were real. They were untainted. They were beautiful. I highly recommend these books.

    My husband had a near death experience. He was supposed to get a stent done, but when they opened him his damage was worse than expected and he had to get a bypass. The doctor who closed him was a pediatric heart specialist who was in the heart surgical wing that evening and closed him up and she used a mesh netting (I think this is right) to close him up. There was nothing wrong with his heart, it was very strong and it burst the netting and he started to bleed internally and actually died for some minutes before they got him opened and closed him up again. During this time he saw his brother sitting up in the corner ceiling of the room. His brother had died a couple of years before from melanoma. Chuck was so happy to see his brother Mike. But Mike told him it wasn't his time yet that couldn't come with him. Chuck was so sad. When he became conscious he was very agitated and angry. He kept asking where Mike was. He said the worst thing was coming back to life again. He said death felt so beautiful. He no longer felt his body, he left so light. Back to life he felt so heavy and so sick. If he talks about it now he still feels the same way.

    I used to live in fear of death. Fear of hell. I no longer believe in hell. I think hell is having no faith or hope or empathy. I believe hell that was manufactured by humans to cause fear and control people. I had an experience in prayer and contemplation where in silent bliss my beloved grandparents appeared to me and said "Live and be happy".

    I went to a Buddhist meditation retreat for a week some years ago after a painful experience in my life and afterward I wrote this poem:

    To love for the sake of loving
    To give for the sake of giving
    To pursue noble action in the aftermath of rejection
    Truth is realized that in the deepest knowing
    Selfishness is diminished
    Truth is realized
    That in the deepest knowing
    Separation is but an illusion
    Loss is but an illusion
    Oneness is all that is
     
  20. Chris0515

    Chris0515 New Member

    Well dad was not mouthy and very disciplined and mom was a total sweetheart and very rarely even cursed, and they were not much into arguing either and if they did have one it was always done behind closed doors. So I don't think we can blame much of anything on them, but instead they get alot of credit for helping me fight back and get my life under control because they never even once considered giving up on me.
     

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