Fred Phelps church rides crazy train to Supreme Court

Thanks INS, sounds interesting. I don't like the word "evil" because of the biblical connotations and people throw it around too easily as though they are righteous and pure and all good. I think for the most part it depends on one's perspective. Re serial killers: haven't they virtually got it clinched that these people are lacking areas in their brains where we regular lot feel remorse and empathy? Perhaps then it is not so much a mental illness as it is a genetic disaster.

 

You stated this as your belief, which I think is fine, neverminding that your belief is incorrect. I have never said that the Bible is literally true. I could not have done so without lying. And I would remembered a lie, for I would have had to cover it with another lie, and another, and another...

 

Scott

I will surely defer to Intrepid on this subject but I'd suggest each serial killer is different but with commonalities. Clinical psychopathology and sociopathology occur in only about 2% of the population. The rest of us have to be 'trained' to kill. Now, if you're in the military they have a bunch of ways of doing it - basically creating 'distance' (be it physical or psychological) to allow the soldier to overcome their natural revulsion to kill. Serial killers (unless they are 2%ers) have also been 'trained' by a whole series of horrific events in their childhood - suffering, abuse, shame and so on. It's a whole ghastly area and we probably don't want to get into it here. Or anywhere really. Too awful.

 

Yes, anyone who reads my posts will understand that all I do is bash others. I have an inner need to do this that I cannot suppress. I deal with nothing of truth that can help others. I suppress the truth and only promulgate lies. That is my goal, to deceive the world.

Now that I have dealt with the innane remarks, I will deal with the one that had any substance whatsoever, the notion that "Not having a Christian background doesn't automatically mean that one puts oneself as one's God." The basis for any remark I ever make about being one's own God refers to the first two of the Ten Commandments:

1.You shall have no other gods before me.

2.You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them.

Taking these two commandments together, whatever one places BEFORE God takes the place OF God. Genesis tells us that God made man in His likeness. So when Man places that likeness, as in commandment #2, BEFORE God, man displaces God from the seat of authority and places himself. The point is that, that which we obey is our god. That which we worship is our god. When we obey only our own desires, when we fulfill the role of what is of primary importance to us in this world, over anything else, we become our own god, this according to these scriptures.

And of course, when we do this, we do not like anything to knock us from the seat of power. God is a threat to that seat. So we contend that God does not exist. If God does not exist, there is nothing to preclude that we remain in our seat of power and authority, with no one but ourselves to answer to in how we conduct our lives. At that point, nothing is compulsary. All good and bad, or evil, is relative to the observer, for the observer is god. The observer decides what is right and wrong. There are no rules other than the rules one decides at any particular moment and circumstance that arises. This is the authoritative basis for moral relativism. The individual is the sovereign. Therefore, the individual is god. The individual changes his mind; therefore truth changes from person to person, day to day, depending on the mind's viewpoint that day.

 

Ghastliness and awfulness is another way to say 'evil.' What I read you saying, INS, is that evil begets evil. I believe that is true.

 

Hank,

That's fine and everything if you are a Christian. Which of course you are. But the world is not made up simply of Christians and atheists. There are a whole bunch of other religions and outside of religions there are a whole lot of people who count themselves as 'spiritual' or agnostic without following a particular religion but who live moral lives. Then there are yet more people who are not religious but who follow moral codes - even at their most basic - law.

I also don't agree with your reasoninig that people choose to not believe in God because he threatens their seat of power. That may be the case for you (if you were to reject your God) but you have no basis on which to extrapolate that view to the millions of other people who do not follow your brand of Christianity.

Your suggestion that in not believing in a Christian God 'anything goes' (I know those aren't your own words but that's the guts of what you're saying) is nonsense. Every society throughout time has had a set of laws and mores which must be followed. What you are suggesting is that without your God there is anarchy and there is just no evidence of that.

 

Hank, kinda. I'm cautious to use the word 'evil' as I think it lets perpetrators of horrific crimes off the hook. It also lets society off the hook in figuring out why they did what they did.

Years ago I remember my mother having a 'flashbulb' moment over the phrase 'sins of the father' (she is a Christian). We were discussing child sexual abuse and how often those kids go on to be perpetrators. She said for her that meant the term 'sins of the father' finally made sense. She said she used to think it was some archaic sin inheritence (which she thought was nonsense) and that it actually meant something like what can happen for a child the victim of abuse - they go on to repeat the sin.

 

You make some excellent points here. Yes, I can see how if we personify evil, it absolves us of culpabability. The devil made me do it. But here is the difference, all spiritual good and all spiritual evil is a personal choice, free will decision. BUT, when we let evil in, it grows. When we lie, we have to lie again to cover the first lie. But, again, we do that out of free will. So we cannot blame evil. We cannot blame the devil making us do something. We do what we want to do. And this is why God gave man the Ten Commandments. As long as man sticks to those commandments, man will never succomb to the temptations of evil.

Regarding 'sins of the father,' the rest of the commandment #2 that I did not bring forward is this:

"For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments."

Good and evil have a life about them. Performing a god act 'has legs' so to speak. When we give of ourselves, others are blessed through that giving. They are blessed beyond any day in question because the gift has a time frame attributed to it. One can even be blessed to the next generations by a gift given today. But the converse is also true. Sin has legs. And sin affects all things it come into contact with, adversely. A serial killer may have a family. He is sent to prison. His family is left fatherless. That affects the family across generations. The sin of the serial killer is visted upon the next generations. That is how this works. It is a natural law of God. Furthermore, blessings invite more blessing. Sin invites more sin, the phenomenn I referred to earlier. To stay out of trouble, we can't just lie once. We have to keep lying. Sin begets sin. Evil begets evil.

You made great points. I agree with you.

 

INS,

Coincidentally, when I went to check the headlines this morning, the first headline illustrates exactly the principles we are talking about. It concerns the story of a killer, who as a result of his act forfeited millions. The man no doubt had a family. The sin of the father is visited upon the next generations, just like commandment #2 predicts:

http://specials.msn.com/A-List/Lifestyle/Killer-loses-millions.aspx?cp-documentid=25866766&imageindex=1

But it also illustrates how God can bless certain folks out of the evil from others. This man's inherited fortune, rather than going to his family, went to the use of the victims. Things just work out that way. This is how these Biblical principles manifest. Things just work out that way.

 

"Quote: INS:"I also don't agree with your reasoninig that people choose to not believe in God because he threatens their seat of power. That may be the case for you (if you were to reject your God) but you have no basis on which to extrapolate that view to the millions of other people who do not follow your brand of Christianity."

No, I don't say this. The scriptures say this and I believe it. I only show you the scriptures and reflect them into life. That is how we know if the dcriptures are true. Does life bear them out? I believe life does, so I believe the scriptures. But this is not what Hank says. This is what the scriptures say, and Hank tells you that."

I'm sorry about that answer, INS. I was on Blackberry and did not read your response very well. What I wrote is not correct to what you wrote and I apologize. God does not threaten anyone's seat of power, absolutely not, and I am sorry to have conveyed that He does. God does not threaten anyone's seat of power because no one has any seat of power to begin with. God has all the power. God can't threaten something that does not exist.

And I have stated, I believe at least three times in earlier posts, that what I write is from the Christian perspective. I do not extrapolate anything over millions. If the Christian perspective is true and correct, God has already done the extrapolation. But God also gives everyone, that includes all of the millions of folks to whom you refer, free will to decide these spiritual matters for themselves.

 

Whoa! So now Hank is not intelligent! He's stupid. Now its back to name calling. Just can't resist, can you.

 

Jesus died for the sins of all mankind - Christians and those of other religions and non believers as well.

 

Aladdin, I was going to reply with this statement, and then add so much more on the subject of ironies. But then I decided that this statement should stand alone.

 

Aladdin & PM,

The day Christ's sacrifice really hit home with me (and I'm sure you've heard this many times before) is when I was at a crossroad in my life and a very humble man told me that if I were the only lost soul, Jesus would have died for me alone.

I know the statement is something that would have never happened but it just made my salvation so raw and personal. I still think about it and it still blows my mind to think that someday I will come face-to-face with my Savior.

 

Thursday, I took Winde down to have some nose surgery, mostly elective, but she would get the passages opened to help her breathing.

The doctor was late. I was getting increasingly uncomfortable with the whole thing. Finally, I said, "Honey, I will pay this man right now all this would cost if we can just walk right out of here.". Something had come over me. And when the doctor was tardy, it kept working at me until I finally had enough. We got up and left. And yes, we'll pay the doctor.

That afternoon, Winde started with a sore throat. She had a cold virus brewing. Had she had the surgery, with a cold, no telling how complicated a recovery this could have been.

But something down deep told me this was not a good idea. This was an overwhelming feeling that told me to leave, get out of there. That is one way the Spirit talks to us, through feelings. That's the only way I can explain it.

She's been sick all weekend, still sick, coughing, wheezing. This could have been a life altering nightmare. I think of how things would have turned out having a viral infection inside of all those inflamed and altered tissues.

All I can say is God is good and I thank God that I received the message in time.
Praise God. Everyone, praise God.

 

And that is how the spirit works too. It's a double edged sword.

 

I can back Henry up with so many times and so many people that I know and have heard of that listened to that small voice and they are alive to talk about what almost was. Not everything in this world is a tangable that you can register on a scale or bottle it and use it later. It's called FAITH! We know something in our hearts, whether it is real to you or not, it is for us.
That is what makes these challenges so unsettling for some of us. We don't go to places you hang out and challenge your beliefs. What makes it "right" for you to come in here and treat the rest of us like a bunch of idiots for having faith in God?
I believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins and the sins of all mankind. I don't expect everyone to believe that and I don't walk around telling people that don't believe the same as me that they are fools or insulting them. I would hope that you would give the rest of us the same consideration. I know that won't happen, but I would hope. I am not perfect and I am not without sin by any stretch of the imagination, what I am is forgiven for my sins. The blood that Jesus shed on the cross was the payment for those sins.
Peace

 

I would like to steer the attention of INS back to a previous post of mine, which when I read his post over my Blackberry this weekend, I did not full understand what he wrote, and it was late. In looking back at my answer, I answered incorrectly as to his point, one I misread. So have made the corrections to my response. This corrected post can be found here:

http://www.menieres.org/forum/index.php/topic,28918.msg517649.html#msg517649

 

Well I know that the alleged Jesus didn't die for my sins as I wasn't born until 1943.

 

I think most of us have that inner voice and the important thing is to be listening when it is talking to us.

I don't know whether it is god talking or an inate intuition but it is definitely something that causes you to pause and reassess a situation. I think if you believe in god, then you will believe it is god talking to you and if you don't believe in god it is the intuition thing.

As a woman it develops quite young and you can just sense danger. I don't know when it develops for men.

Whatever the cause I am glad you listened Henry and that Winde is ok. Having a cold or viral infection certainly would not have been good in conjunction with the healing process from the operation.