Dr Hain's Treatment Flow Charts

Hello gang. I have been hanging around on this site from time to time and dont think I have every inititated a post. Recently I made a comment on the board about a treatment flow chart that Dr Hain uses in his practice. Several have pm'd me for a copy so I thought I would just put the info out for everyone. I tried to cut and paste it, but the graphic would not cooperate. So here is a link to the entire publication....its the same one I have referenced many times on the board. But he recently updated it with these two flow charts. If you have not seen them they are kind of interesting. The thing I like is that it puts MM treatment in a step by step logical progressive layout that even people like me can understand. And I can testify first hand he follows this in his office.

If you are interested, connect to the link and then curser down to the two flow charts. I sort of think it make more sense to look at the second one first, but either way I think you will get the idea. The moral of the story is that everyone should know their own doctors progressive treatment plan and feel its right for you. Here it is:

http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/disorders/menieres/menieres.html

Good luck to all.

Sid

 

Another (#3) Dr Hain Flowchart

I forgot to mention in my recent post that there are actually three Dr Hain treatment flow charts...one for an acute attack...one for the mangement of MM...and one for treatments of last resort. I forgot to give you a link to the third one on the other post. Here is the link for the progressive flowchart of treatments of last resort:

http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/disorders/menieres/menieres%20last%20resort.html

Sid

 

Re: Another (#3) Dr Hain Flowchart

Thanks, Sid. Dr. Hain is one of the foremost experts and his info is easy to read and understand.

 

Re: Dr Hain's Treatment Flow Chart

Sid - I'm going to leave your posts here for a day or two, then ask Ray to move them to the Database.

I think Dr. Hain is one of the best sources for Meniere's and all things related.

Thanks.

 

Re: Dr Hain's Treatment Flow Chart

Sid, those are great flow charts. It's encouraging to me to see my diagnosis and treatment have followed a standard procedure and that I'm on the right track with this VNS. Thank you!

 

Re: Dr Hain's Treatment Flow Chart

Thank you Sid. These are great. VK

 

Re: Another (#3) Dr Hain Flowchart

I would sure like to see antivirals on those flow charts near the top. I think I would have a little more of my hearing if I had found them sooner.

 

Re: Another (#3) Dr Hain Flowchart

Ant-virals don't restore lost hearing.

 

Re: Another (#3) Dr Hain Flowchart

It does seem, June, that we have to look many places for answers doesn't it?
It's great Dr. Hain makes his info so accessible. Someone just reported on a thread yesterday that they were given advice by email from another top doc.............the internet can be such a huge help.
Lisa

 

Re: Another (#3) Dr Hain Flowchart

Antivirals did restore my hearing from horribly distorted to almost normal in the distortion area. The audiogram which measures the volume at which I can hear improved slightly. My hearing loss did increase between the time the hearing loss first happened and the time I took antivirals. But no further loss has happened since then. I wish I had tried them 9 months earlier when the loss first appeared, I think I might not have had a permanent hearing loss or at least it would never have gone beyond the point it was when initially found. The trials for famvir actually showed more promise in reduced hearing fluctuations than it did with vertigo. This was a double blind study against placebo. There are different points in the process of hearing loss. My dr told me it is rare for it to help someone with a long standing severe hearing loss but it has happened.

Yes, it sure does. After reading on this board for 1 1/2 years I am absolutely convinced that even among those of us who are 'correctly' diagnosed with Meniere's by experts, we don't all have the same origin for our problem and since there is not yet a definitive test for the 'real' Meniere's or Menieres of this origin or that origin, we do ourselves an injustice if we don't keep our eyes open and try as many things as possible keeping safety foremost of course.

 

Re: Another (#3) Dr Hain Flowchart

I completely agree with you June. What works for one and doesn't for another seems to indicate different origins, exactly. For me my own doctor has been key, but for those not as lucky with medical advice, we have to keep our eyes open. Even for me, my doc did not mention vitamin B which for me was a crucial help with tinnitus.
Lisa

 

Re: Another (#3) Dr Hain Flowchart

I feel lucky that it was my family dr who just couldn't get it out of her mind that I had a bad viral infection the year before and she was very willing to do the acyclovir. I really didn't think it would work and carried the rx around for a couple weeks before I filled it because I didn't want to be disappointed again. Even though I clearly have inner ear damage, I have also had a tinnitus episode that was cured by flonase indicating to my poor brain that middle ear is gumming up the works as well. I am at a loss as to how I developed both inner ear and middle ear issues simultaneously but I just keep plugging along taking the good results where I find them.

Which vitamin B helped you, do you know? House advises the flushing kind of niacin to improve circulation in the ear. I have been careless over the years about vitamins and think I need to take a good multivitamin. Do you take shots or a multi?

When my distortion went away with the antivirals the tinnitus went from VERY LOUD to a background noise I don't notice most of the time and it was the typical low pitched fan and motor tinnitus that comes with MM. Also the loud pops and clangs at night and near nausea brought on by low pitched music went away at the same time. I also quit hearing glass in windows rattle when cars went by. I was the only one who could hear these very low pitched sounds. I also quit hearing all the machinery and fans in big box stores.

 

Re: Dr Hain's Treatment Flow Chart

That was very helpful. Will have my family read it all. Thank you

 

Re: Dr Hain's Treatment Flow Chart

Well, are Dr. Hain's treatment flow charts really so good?

If the treatments used in the charts are the only ones that work, or should be considered, then yes, this is a useful chart, taking away all the mystery of what doctors and patients should do to treat this disease. If only Meniere's were this simple. It's not, as numerous postings on this site will testify.

Of course, Dr. Hain is confident that the end-point treatments of his chart are the only ones to be considered. And there, I believe, is the difficulty. There have been a number of alternative therapies posted on this board and elsewhere that have proven very successful and useful, approaches Dr. Hain's chart utterly neglects.

Of course, the good Dr., like most physicians, is very likely to claim that he deals only with "evidence-based" therapies, preferring to use conventional treatments and procedures accepted by the medical profession, ones that appear in the medical textbooks. Other, alternative approaches, for Dr.Hain, are almost surely too "iffy" and unproven to even consider.

Note that he makes no mention of Rick's gluten-avoidance approaches, which have shown to be so useful for so many. Nor is there any mention of my own unique, alternative approach to our disease.

Dr. Hain might well state that the recorded positive results rate from my regimen (86%) are merely placebo effects, or bad or inaccurate recollections of such "successes."

Of course, I would disagree with Dr. Hain. I'd be delighted to have him critcally review the 193 personal accounts from regimen users, eagerly anticipating his explanations of just why my treatment regimen really doesn't work and should never become a legitimate element of accepted Meniere's treatments.

He neglects, does he not, the Meniette device?

So, for those who desire to stay safely within conventional American Meniere's therapy, the Hain flow charts are helpful. But if one takes that confining approach, the results may not be very rewarding. One thing Dr. Hain fails to report is the numbers or rates of success for each of the treatments. My regimen reports 86% success. What are the success rates of all the other, conventional treatment methods? Why aren't these results ever posted, or well known? I'm affraid that if they were, they would be very very discouraging.

--John of Ohio

 

Re: Dr Hain's Treatment Flow Chart

Interesting responses indeed. I would repeat that the point of my post was to encourage everyone to understand their own doctors paticular approach to therapy, be sure it meets their needs, and always know the next step given what someone believes and what is right for them. I dont ever intend to suggest that one is better than another....or complete in all of the therapies. (I am a Meniett user and have had some surgeries not on this paticular flowchart) But I still like the concept of knowing the progressive plan because no one paticular treatment works for everyone. I am hopeful everyone will know all options available, know which approach is used by their own doc, and always know their next step in the game. Peace and wellness to all. Sid.

 

Re: Another (#3) Dr Hain Flowchart

I just left this messge on the other Hain flowchart post and wanted to do so here. Have a great day!! Friday!!

Interesting responses indeed. I would repeat that the point of my post was to encourage everyone to understand their own doctors paticular approach to therapy, be sure it meets their needs, and always know the next step given what someone believes and what is right for them. I dont ever intend to suggest that one is better than another....or complete in all of the therapies. (I am a Meniett user and have had some surgeries not on this paticular flowchart) But I still like the concept of knowing the progressive plan because no one paticular treatment works for everyone. I am hopeful everyone will know all options available, know which approach is used by their own doc, and always know their next step in the game. Peace and wellness to all. Sid.

 

Re: Another (#3) Dr Hain Flowchart

Hi Sid, I can't agree with you more that having a strategy mapped out is extremely helpful. I created my own flow chart when I felt well, so that I would not rush into something I had not thought through when I was under pressure. As everyone probably has felt, some days you'd stick an ice pick in your ear, anything to help!
Lisa

 

Re: Another (#3) Dr Hain Flowchart

I am very impressed Dr. Hain puts all this out there on his website for everyone, even people who are not patients, to benefit from. Lisa

 

Re: Another (#3) Dr Hain Flowchart

I am too. I so much appreciate all the reliable medical information that is in the public domain for patients.

 

Can anyone recommend a specialist in Boston MA for Meniere's- someone who has personal experience with the doctor they recommend. We need a good and thorough diagnosis. We have already seen several ear people but they have not been helpful. we live in greater Boston and I know there must be a few but I hate taking the yellow page approach . Thanks
Kathy