Discovering Body Logic study group

Discussion in 'Your Living Room' started by oaktree8, Jan 1, 2008.

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  1. tamarak

    tamarak New Member

    After such a long time without any Menieres symptoms, I had a terrible bout with vertigo, dizziness and nausea, unsteadiness-all of it, last week. I just couldn't seem to sleep enough. Well, I didn't really want to go back to the general board and talk about lo-sodium or whatever--I was bored with my own discussions of alternative approaches to health and wellness and I didn't really have anything more to add to what I'd already said I just pm'd a few of you.

    One of my pm's was to Mnme because I remembered that she had been working on a book...I wanted to know how to get a copy (now that my interest in health and wellbeing was refreshed, thanks to the attacks!). Now, I've discovered this thread.

    It is so great and exciting and stimulating and interesting and most of all relevant!!!

    Although I haven't gotten the book yet. I CAN'T WAIT! One of the things that I'm noticing is that many of you have had similar approaches to life as the drivenness, the non-listening to the body. One clear example of my stoic/workaholic/scarce approach was when I was 15 and I worked as a busgirl in a restaurant...I was carrying a fresh pot of steaming hot coffee and walking toward the swinging door to the kitchen when the opposite door opened, hitting me and splashing and crashing the coffee onto my chest. I finished the four hour shift, told no one about my pain and then went to the hospital to learn that I had second degree burns! I still have the scars. It should be my constant reminder to listen to my body's needs and to take care of myself! With respect to the personality/belief systems which have contributed to ill health, the messages from many of you, but especially Titus, really resonate for me.

    Thank you all who are taking the time to weave this thread of knowledge and support. I am returning to partake in the wisdom and new ideas that I know will help me on this voyage of discovery which will lead to better health and likely better relationships with myself and my family, friends, and business(es) as I learn to set appropriate limits. (Yes, Pardonme...first of all, I'll start with baby steps to set limits on my drivenness to finish the laundry etc.)

    I am going to bed now, even though there are delicious pages of information waiting for me to read. I know that my aching shoulders are telling me that it's time to leave the computer for now. I need to learn to trust that there will be time tomorrow...that I will be able to say no to other things and to put this as a priority. I need to learn to trust that there will be abundant time and that it is a scarcity mentality which creates this world where I'd better do it tonight or it won't get done, it is a scarcity mentality which thinks that life is so harsh that you should continue to work despite 2nd degree burns!

    Good night!


    ps it was also great to see many of you posting! I've missed you! There are so many characters on this thread.

    oh, by the way...after reading such a series of supportive comments, I do have a bit of an outsider's perspective still and I do have some feedback...I think that we have too much to lose by taking comments personally etc. Pardonme has never struck me as someone who has the time or energy to use this forum as a personal ego boost. If she made a comment that seems to feel a bit harsh or condescending, I would urge you to reconsider...think of her as a veteran who has seen a lot of action and is giving information based from that perspective. She is not taking your dignity...she is giving information in a concise way. Sometimes the Zen masters' seemed to be harsh or inconsiderate...but with perspective, it can be seen that they were actually very kind.

    ...and I'd almost forgotten about the posts by that erudite fellow...what is his name? I've actually forgotten! Oh, yes...Nassman. Well, I must say that his comments felt very jarring in this particular thread. I would suggest that he read the very beginning of the thread where it states quite clearly the purpose of the thread etc. I know that Nassman thrives on controversy and I'm sure that there are other locales on this site where he will be able to contribute his wealth of knowledge and research. I would suggest that his comments in this place at this time were inappropriate.

    Either way, I know that there is too much at stake here to get into little personal quibbles and hurt feelings, infighting etc. In a way, it's like a war (I'm reading War and Peace right now...what do you think I was doing during that week and a half in bed (between dizzy spells!)...and you'd be amazed at how many wars were lost thanks to the infighting etc. of the generals. I know that you will dislike the military images in this post, but you will have to agree that this is one war that none of us can afford to lose!


  2. tamarak

    tamarak New Member

    Well, Intrepid...I admire your willingness to confront things head on. You are probably right, I am probably harsh and critical. Possibly one of the roots of this damn illness. Thank you for taking the time to call things as you see them. You've given me some things to think about tonight. I am willing to accept your comments as full of truth. Tamara
  3. Mnme

    Mnme Guest

    Tamara, great to hear from you after all this time!! Thank you for sharing your story about your burns. What a dramatic example of how we push our bodies. I used to go about slowly but surely doing the same kind of ignoring. I have missed your energy and enthusiasm so am thrilled to see you joining in.

    Dye, even though you mentioned this before, I still find it fascinating. My experience with releasing the tension was different to yours, yet interestingly we achieved the same positive results. I also found it essential to remove the outer layers of tension first, and that it was the deeper tension that was pulling my neck out of alignment. In the early days I would feel far better after managing to reach those 'hidden' muscles, but it was never a direct 'hit this and this happens' in regards to tinnitus and nystagmus like you experienced. I've since noticed the same referred pattern you speak of in others. It just goes to show that we can work out our own best way and also learn from each other.

    Tamara you reminded me that this really is a 'thread' of ideas from some pretty amazing people. Each person has taught me something. Again, thank you to all those who share their experiences.

  4. pardonme

    pardonme Guest

  5. ariapace

    ariapace New Member

    If anyone wants to get out of the cycle of hurt feelings, defensiveness, judging, and attacking--and the suffering and stress that come with all of that--the best thing that I have found is The Work of Byron Katie. It's simple, efficient, enlightening, and liberating. And you can do it yourself, for free.
  6. ariapace

    ariapace New Member

    BTW, as I've been reading all of these posts, I've been trigger pointing myself with my theracane! LOL If I keep it up, this could be one possible benefit of internet addiction. LOL
  7. SweetTater

    SweetTater New Member

    Lots of posts since my last one. I am very busy this week but wanted to put my two cents in on this week's chapter review.
    I have a ways to go yet to be where some of you are with TP's and I am wondering one thing Lee & Diane - when you talk about uncovering layers do you mean there are TP's under TP's or are you talking about one area leading to another as in once you master one area you have others that you move on to or am I totally off altogether?
    I have highlighted in this chapter on page 106 - "Remember, any massage is good for you. You can't go wrong because your body won't let you."
    This statement is very encouraging to me.

    On a different note - I am also encouraged to know that Lee says she had a different experience than Diane in that she did not discover those specific TP's that dealt with the tinnitus or eye movement problems because I can't find those myself and I have really tried so far. I do not have the eye movement but the tinnitus I do and sure would be good to find that TP but maybe I never will, time will tell!

    Welcome Tamara!

    Diane - have a wonderful time on your getaway!
  8. ariapace

    ariapace New Member


    I like the passage that you highlighted. Also this one:

    "It really is as simple as finding the sore spots and pressing hard on them!" (p. 107)

    (I also use Clair Davies' method of massaging them from one side to the other. That's the way I first learned, and sometimes it seems easier for me on certain muscles.)

    I was just rereading Chapter 6 and this passage struck me on p. 92:

    "Instead of limiting ourselves to specific troublesome areas (whether referred pain or not), I found it is far more effective to focus on how trigger points pull 'natural and relaxed' posture out of alignment. In this way we literally let our body show us where its problems lie."

    I can feel tension on one side of my neck that wants to pull my head to one side. It's subtle, and I wasn't aware of it before starting on all of this. Noticing it is a function of increased awareness and exploring the TPs. There are several TPs involved in that area.

    I don't think they mean that there are TPs physically underneath other TPs. Maybe they will come along and clarify...
  9. carolanne

    carolanne Lily

    Ariapace, I listened to some of the video clips on the works of Byron Kate. Very interesting and certainly a different and more positive way to view struggles and negativity.
  10. Mnme

    Mnme Guest

    Ariapace, thanks for the reminder about Byron Katie's work.
    I agree Carolanne, hers is a more positive way to view struggles and negativity. She looks at reality (which is what DBL aims to do by looking at the reality of the body's health clues).
    Here's a link to an interview between Byron Katie and a woman who hates her body for anyone interested.

  11. Mnme

    Mnme Guest

    The concept of layers of tension is very important. I'll have a go at explaining it.

    Imagine someone with Menieres going to a masseur, trigger point therapist or physiotherapist. The treatment makes them feel a little better for a day or so, but it doesn't touch their Meniere's symptoms. So it doesn't seem to work.

    Now imagine that someone believes in the DBL concepts and sets the broader goal to remove all tension. They EXPECT that their very first TP massage will barely break the surface. In fact, they understand that if they are really tense, they may not even feel many TP's to begin with. They rely on their health clues to guide them (reality).

    These people know that they have to keep at it. And if they go straight back to slouching/sitting at a computer too long/being too stressed etc, all their good work will be undone. Over time they resolve the surface tension. They are surprised to notice 'sore bits' they never felt before, so they search where this came from. They start to feel irregularities in muscles on one side of the body to the other that before, had been hidden under general tension. They remain focused on releasing the tension, not the symptoms.

    With increasing personal discoveries, they see how much they can do which motivates them to keep striving higher. They start to look and feel better.

    It gets really interesting when enough tension is released to really get into muscles like the scalenes (muscles down the side of the neck). Scalenes, for example, won't completely release while there is still tension in the shoulders, or 'high' breathing (continually pulls on them) etc. And also when one spot is released, the muscle relaxes enough to feel others previously missed. At this point, TP work feels awesome as the results link directly to how they feel.

    So SweetTater, it's both. Some people get to deeper levels of tension fairly quickly, particularly if they haven't been suffering for long. But some have a lot to work through.

    Hope this helps a little.

  12. SweetTater

    SweetTater New Member

    Thank you Lee - that was in fact very helpful.
  13. oaktree8

    oaktree8 New Member

    Very helpful, thank you Lee!

    I'm embarrassed to ask this question, but I've been noticing that I have this big bumps on the side of my neck, and on my low back. They're just under the skin, and I can move them back and forth a bit. Could they be trigger points?

    What made me wonder is that I've been working on my neck every day, and the bumps on the side of my neck aren't as big anymore. They're still there, but not as big, so does that mean I'm making progress on the trigger points?

  14. tamarak

    tamarak New Member

    ...just wanted to let you know that I've been working on what I understand to be "trigger points" (tough little painful spots in the neck and upper back area... by pressing them really hard and then releasing them?).

    Sorry to be going on this thread "blind", but I have misplaced the credit card to get the book! And am eager to start this approach now.

    I've been very successful at saying "no" to most of my workaholic tendencies...when I start feeling like I HAVE to get this done and I HAVE to finish it RIGHT NOW, I take a step back from the situation. I believe that this approach to life has caused me to be very "productive" but at great cost.

    Am I hitting some of the things that the book is addressing? Like I said, sorry to be going over this stuff at this very basic level...

  15. SweetTater

    SweetTater New Member

    Tamara - don't worry about going on this thread "blind" as you put it, I think it's wonderful that you are going ahead and doing what you can to begin DBL methods and it sounds like you've got a pretty good understanding of what we are doing here already.
    Even though we are going chapter by chapter now it's really fine to discuss any part of DBL you feel you want or need to at any time.

    I hope you find your credit card soon!
  16. SweetTater

    SweetTater New Member

    Chapter 8 - Trigger Point 'Maps'... - Open for discussion.
  17. Mnme

    Mnme Guest

    Before moving on, here's an exercise for anyone wanting to see if DBL is starting to make a difference:

    Get a sheet of paper and draw a large triangle.
    Imagine this represents your priorities for approaching (resolving) your suffering. At the top put your most important driving belief, filtering down to 'lesser' strategies and concepts. Naturally they will all be important, but this will help you prioritize.

    When I first started applying DBL, I had a whole host of disorganized strategies. There was no triangle, just a confused assortment of ideas. But I noticed that slowly but surely, these started to shift into an order of importance. Eventually, if I got caught up worrying about a lesser problem, all I had to do was focus on a 'higher' principle and it would put me back on track. I believe this sorting of beliefs and strategies is fundamental to problem solving health problems.

    Keep thinking about your triangle. Pencil in some ideas and keep playing with them, shifting them around. I wonder, what is at the top? Do you keep losing sight of this?

    Oaktree ... In response to your question, it sounds like you are breaking up old tension. If you ever suspect bumps/lumps are anything other than trigger points, have a doctor check them out. But the ones you describe sound like trigger points, particularly as they are reducing the more you work them.
  18. pardonme

    pardonme Guest

  19. pardonme

    pardonme Guest

  20. tamarak

    tamarak New Member

    Pardonme...thank you for that description of the triangle exercise! Not having the book, I was excited to try the exercise, but then didn't know what to put in my I understand it much better!

    Just came off a long session with the Byron Katie questions, and I think that the two exercises in combination could be very life changing!

    I feel like I had this "relapse" of Menieres so that I could be reminded to return and to learn more to enhance my life. It's sort of like how Pardonme talks about working those big bumps to get down to the little ones...the first bouts with the Menieres helped me to work out the big bumps, then I reorganized my life (no longer working shifts at the business), but that brought with it other issues (questioning my value as a person ie. I am used to being a warrior, what use is a warrior at home?). Then I transferred overworking to, I am learning to work with the ith the Byron Katie work...learning to love myself and other stuff too personal to mention!

    I guess that I need to be grateful for the recent attacks...but only because y'all are here to catch me!


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