Demon Possession

Discussion in 'Your Religion & Spiritual Corner' started by Henrysullivan, May 1, 2009.

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  1. Henrysullivan

    Henrysullivan New Member

    Ever drop an egg on the floor? What was oringinally a perfectly orderly egg, became, well, what you get by dropping an egg on the floor, completely random egg. Why? Because of nature. That is the nature of things. What happens if you leave your house unoccupied for 6 months? All the cleaning you did prior to leaving was for naught. Now it's dirtier and dustier than it was before you imparted energy into cleaning before you left. The Big Bang, prior to it, perfect order, oneness, the singularity all in one point. After the Big Bang, absolute random pattern of flying debris. Just imagine the amount of energy necessary to place all that back into the singularity. It takes energy to impart order, no energy to disrupt order. That is the nature of the universe.
     
  2. leviticus

    leviticus Jonah's whale

    Holly,, without the first sin, we would live in a perfect garden, but we did sin, now we can still get back to that perfect garden, Jesus provided the way,, He rakes up the compost we leave behind and puts it as far as the east is from the west, all we have to do, is choose to believe it, your word compost would make a good sermon holly,,our sins builds up like leaves in the woods, and if the sin or leaves are not removed, a lightning strike hits and it all catches on fire..you are reminding me more of Beth Moore everyday holly,,I think you understand way more than you let on,,so preach to us,, we love it!!
     
  3. hollymm

    hollymm Me, 'in' a tree.

    I'm just a little off point here with both Hank and Vic. I guess I'm thinking in too literal a sense. I understand what was said in a way, I guess I'm talking the impirical world verses the chaos theory of Hank. energy = order, non energy = disorder - I'm not getting it. I don't get the egg theory and opposed to order or disorder for that matter either.

    Vic, first of all I'm gonna google Beth Moore =~). I guess I'm not getting how we would've evolved into this day and age from the first humans, in this case Adam and Eve. I think maybe I'm asking for conjecture and that's not fair - where would we be now without the first sin?

    I understand the perfect garden but now how we would have evolved. Would we have been a thinking 'man' with houses and cars and money and stuff like that? Or would we have remained like the animals without a conscious knowledge of what is right and wrong. Naked in the world. I'm guessing we all would have a personal (I'm talking one on one) relationship with God? (I'm not trying to be funny or flippant here). We'd actually be able to talk to God and know him - without the written word?

    I guess I kinda understand the natural world because there is, it seems to me, order and disorder in it without man. There is chaos too because of the nature of plants and animals and how they work together to revitilize the living environment. So if what Hank is saying is true, if the animals stopped the 'food' chain and the death of animals along with the death of living plants stopped the revitilization of the earth, the earth would not 'be' as in - no energy - no order.

    Am I off the subject of the original question or am I just - off?
     
  4. Henrysullivan

    Henrysullivan New Member

    Try this site for a better explanation of entropy and the natural tendency toward disorder.

    http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/therm/entrop.html

    There may be other good explanations. But don't get caught up in a hypertechnical disagreement to the notion that in nature disorder occurs unless energy is imparted to either retain order to to establish order. That's just the way it is. Some incredible amount of intelligent energy had to be imparted to this universe for it to have come into being as it did.
     
  5. leviticus

    leviticus Jonah's whale

    Holly,, if adam and eve hadn't sinned I have no idea what the world would be like today,, yes obviously we would have a personal relationship with God, you can see that adam and eve had one in chapter 3 of Genesis, there would be no need for anything, all would be perfect, and we will get back to that world someday according to the Bible,, Jesus came and paved the way for all of humanity to go to Heaven,, once sin entered into the world it changed everything, disobedience to God changes things, that is why Jesus came, to do away with sin once and for all,, now life is Spiritual, our flesh dies, but our Spirit will live forever, the question is where does your spirit go when you die,, the Bible says Heaven or Hell,,you have to make up your mind whether to believe or not, God doesn't want robots,,if He did He would have created us that way, but He gave us the ability to choose,,in your post you say that you can grasp more of the natural world, you can see how it works,,and that is normal holly,,in order for the Bible to really open up to you and speak to you it will take a step of faith on your part,,choose to give God a chance, you did once before and you felt that power,,you can choose to do it again, will humans fail you, yes they will, I make mistakes everyday, but you can't judge the church on human behavior, a church is a body of believers, still sinners, but have accepted Jesus Christ into their hearts, but we humans will never be perfect until we get to Heaven,,If you give God and Church a chance again what could be the loss, only a little time is all I could think of,,,Take a Sunday and attend a Church Service, see what it feels like, you are more mature now and can handle anything some person will say or do,,you don't go to church to serve people anyway, You go to Worship and Praise the Lord, and to learn about His life and how He lived it,,.....take a step of faith!!!
     
  6. hollymm

    hollymm Me, 'in' a tree.

    Whew!! A lot to digest..am a little cross-eyed from reading. I will get back to it but can't think to write anything of intelligence right now...
     
  7. rev

    rev New Member

    I agree with Aladdin!

    I've seen too much and experienced too much to engage in this as a mere intellectual exercise. Evil is real and a lot of it is the result of Satan and his legions.

    This is a legitimate topic, but it is not one in which we should participate without caution.

    I will spend my energy elsewhere, unless someone is actually considering performing an exorcism or knows someone that is possessed.
     
  8. Henrysullivan

    Henrysullivan New Member

    Hi Stoner, that is one of our questions here how we would know someone is possessed. You have seen evil. You know what it is. How do we tell when an individual has crossed over and become a tool of Satan? Vic, you've seen this up close and personal. How can we tell?
     
  9. leviticus

    leviticus Jonah's whale

    How can we tell when someone is posessed?,, I don't think you can everytime but I know alot of times you can..
    Have you ever walked up to someone and immediately felt sick in your stomach, felt uneasy in your Spirit, felt an immediate fear of that person when logically there was no reason to??,,,What happens is the demon sees a Christian and its an immediate struggle, they have a conflict when you get close to one another, usually someone with a demon inside them will have eyes that seem to look right through you, you can feel it, its Spiritual Warefare, I have walked into Housing units of a Prison where there were 120 inmates and you could literally hear the demons laughing at you, but I could never tell from which one or ones it was coming from until I got up close and personal,,,,maybe its a gift or maybe every Christian can feel that I don't know, obviously this helped me in the environment I was in,, but if you ever meet someone or walk in a room and immediately begin to feel uneasy, maybe even sick, there is a presence there, and it is on the Spiritual side, you can't see it, but you know its there....now if you don't believe what I just said thats okay,, but for me, it was real!!! And in the prison I wasn't the only Christian there that knew all this and they would tell you the same thing....
     
  10. Henrysullivan

    Henrysullivan New Member

    What about any outward signs? You mentioned the stare. Anything you can relate about how they act? What they say?

    And it occurs to me to ask your opinion on something else. What about Satan's ability to distract, such as, say, while driving? It occurs to me that temptation can take many forms, the temptation to read a billboard rather than watch for children crossing the road. What do you or any others think about that? I don't know how much of an opinion I personally can offer on that other than the ability to distract would be in Satan's toolbox. One person distracted could cause a major catastrophy and loss of life, just what Satan likes to see. What do you think?
     
  11. Titus

    Titus New Member

    Some helpful scriptures:

    Meeting and Beating Satan
    Who is Satan (Zech. 3:1–2)? Scripture instructs us about the nature and activity of this evil, fallen angel, who is ceaselessly opposed to God, God’s creation, and God’s people. God wants us to be aware and be alert so that we are not caught off guard by his schemes.
    1. He is called “the devil,” which means a false witness or malicious accuser. (This terms occurs thirty-five times in the New King James translation of the Bible, always in the New Testament). Satan regularly accuses believers before God, seeking to tear down their sense of well-being and wear down their strength through guilt (Job 1:6–11; Eph. 4:27; 6:11; Rev. 12:10).
    2. He specializes in deceit (Gen. 3:1–7), sometimes masquerading as an “angel of light,” as though he were representing God (2 Cor. 11:14). Jesus called him the father of lies (John 8:44). Paul and John further illuminate this characteristic deception (1 Tim. 3:6–7; Rev. 20:10).
    3. He is a tempter, seeking to draw people into activities that are disobedient to God and destructive to them (Matt. 4:1–11; 1 Cor. 10:13; 1 Thess. 3:5).
    4. He has a great deal of influence on this world. Three times Jesus described him in Scripture as the “ruler of this world” (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11). Paul used similar expressions (2 Cor. 4:4; Eph. 2:2).
    How, then, should we as believers respond to this dangerous enemy?
    1. We need to remind ourselves that Satan has been defeated by the death and resurrection of Christ, and therefore we need not submit to him or fear him (Heb. 2:14–15; 1 John 3:8; Rev. 20:10). Our Lord Jesus is familiar with his enticements and has met him head on—and won (Luke 4:1–13; Heb. 4:15).
    2. We need to remember that Satan’s power and impact are limited by God. Ultimately he is not free to do whatever he wants (Job 1:7–12; 2:6; John 14:30–31; 2 Thess. 2:7–8).
    3. We are to stand opposed to Satan at all times. He will flee when we do (1 Pet. 5:8–9; James 4:7).
    4. We are to equip ourselves for this constant battle (Eph. 6:13–18).
    5. We need to lean on God, who gives us the power to escape Satan’s various temptations and enticements (Eph. 6:11; 1 Cor. 10:13).
    6. We must maintain a healthy respect for the power of the evil one and for the constant battle that he wages against us. This is not a game; it is a life-and-death struggle in which there will be casualties (1 Tim. 3:7; 1 Pet. 5:8; Jude 9).
     
  12. leviticus

    leviticus Jonah's whale

    Hank,, never saw anything in that environment that was consistant with being posessed, all most all inmates were always negative, didn't want to hear about God, most claimed innocence, When you have 20 years to life as most of them had there was not alot to be happy about, of course on occasion you would see God working, thats how I know He is always working, in the midst of all that chaos, God was still there,,,,,,...
    I absolutely think satan is out to destroy us, temptation is one of his ways, he even tried to tempt Jesus, driving is a good example,,if he can time it just right and get you to look away and cause an accident, he's going to do it.
    Today we have so many distractions while driving, and think about everything else, tv,movies, ball games on Sunday,,car races on Sunday,, if any of these things keep you from serving God, the devil is winning, now obviously you can't attend every church service, there are some jobs that require working on Sunday, I had one, the main thing of course is do you take Jesus with you where ever you go, if we don't stay focused on Jesus, the devil can really make a mess in a hurry,,,,,ever notice how you are tempted by the same thing over and over again, that is clearly the devil at work, its his job, and he is good at, he can read us so well, and he knows our weaknesses, thats why we seem to fail at certain temptations over and over again, and until we recognize it, we will continue to fail everytime,,,walking the Christian walk is not easy, Jesus said in the world you have tribulations, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.....the power to overcome is with us, we just have to use it,,,,...now you got me to preaching hank,, and I sure feel convicted, I fail way to many times, need to clean up my own act......

    Titus has some great scriptures, thank you for all those reminders, the Word is definitely a way to get cleaned up..
     
  13. Titus

    Titus New Member

    Wouldn't it make sense that they would act like the Word describes the enemy? If we're walking with Christ, we will be more Christlike, true?
    I'm thinking they would do anything to distract a believer. Drama, gossip, false flattery, deceit, promises, focusing on our weaknesses. They would also try to discredit Christians and Christianity. Jesus used the Word of God to rebuke the devil.
     
  14. hollymm

    hollymm Me, 'in' a tree.

    kIM,
    When you wrote those scriptures about satan, I was actually afraid to read them!! I thought it would bring 'something' bad into my life (weird huh?). Then, after I passed them by, I said 'No', if you're afraid to read it, then you'll always be afraid of it. So, I read them. It didn't cause a huge relief or change in me but it did make me feel good to fight my fear of it.
     
  15. rev

    rev New Member

    Like Vic, I don't think we always do see it immediately. Sometimes it is revealed over time. Other times it is apparent because the Holy Spirit (who indwells and fills us) whispers to your heart/soul/mind.

    I want to mention that there is a difference in possession and influence. Satan often tempts us and he most often using something that is a weakness. If I give in, I have sinned - but that doesn't mean I am possessed.

    Possession comes in several ways, the most common way I've seen being a continued dabbling with things that God has told us to avoid.

    Great words of wisdom here Titius!
     
  16. Titus

    Titus New Member

    I find so much comfort in God's Word. I live alone and sometimes I'm lonely. If I play some worship music it gives me a real boost. Nothing like the Holy Spirit to lift me up!

    Holly, you know my medical history. When I go to bed and am in pain, or anxious, or feeling down, I put one of my CDs of the Gospel of John, or even the psalms and it gives me comfort and peace. What would really scare me is if I thought I didn't have a means to fight off evil so these verses reassure me.
     
  17. Henrysullivan

    Henrysullivan New Member

    Kim, these were great references you gave us. I did not mean to overlook them. On the contrary, I have simply not had the time to really look them over. There are so much here that even now I cannot do them justice. But just a couple of thoughts here:

    Regarding whether Satan is the ruler of the natural world, which was questioned earlier, that is clear in the scriptures. In John 14:30, Jesus tells His disciples, "I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me." The prince is the ruler. The prince has no hold on Jesus because Jesus could not be tempted.

    Another point I will make right now, numerous times Shining has referred in her statements to 'the light.' I would just like to point out that from our vantage point, we cannot know, none of us can, even Christians, we cannot know the source of certain spiritual manifestations out of our own intellect. We do not have the big picture. We cannot see what goes on the in the spiritual realm. And because this is true, we also cannot see the origin of one manifestation we might perceive as 'the light.' Because we cannot see behind the scenes, we can easily be fooled. So how do we know? one way we can know is by looking in the rule book, the Holy Bible. In Wicca, there is no such rule book. There is no reference guide. There is no way of knowing what is good, what is bad, what is evil and what is good, because there is no standard other than that standard we can conjure in our minds. If I were Satan, that is precisely the kind of mascerade I would devise. According to the scriptures you have given us, Kim, one device Satan uses is to transforms himself into an angel of light.


    2 Corinthians 11:14 (New King James Version)

    14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

    So there we have one of the rules of spiritual warefare given to us by the Word of God. Knowing this, we should be wary of spirutal manfestations that appear in the form of angel's (gods, or goddesses) of light. This is how we discern evil from good. We must equip ourselves with the Word of God. Other than that, we have no armor against Satan's trickery. Think about it. How can we really know good from evil unless we are given their definitions? What loving God would simply leave His fondest creation, man, to simply figure all that out on his own? The Word of God is given to us so that we are not defenseless against the enemy. It is our weapon, our armor. Paul made this point clear to the Ephesians here:

    Ephesians 6

    The Armor of God

    10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.


    The armor Paul spoke of is the Word of God. John says that the Word of God is Spirit. Therefore, the Word of God is alive. It is life in and of itself. Therefore the Word of God can inhabit one's spirit just like a lie can inhabit one's spirit. The only way that we can know the difference is by comparing these spiritual manifestations against the standard. The standard is given in the Word of God.

    Thanks very much, Kim for the research you gave us. I expect that I wil have more to respond on it as time proceeds.

    Hank
     
  18. newflady

    newflady New Member

    Kim and Hank good references for those who wonder what the bible has to say about the whole thing!
     
  19. hollymm

    hollymm Me, 'in' a tree.

    The world that I know has become so desensitized to the horrors that once were unimaginable, I sometimes wonder just how bad it has to get before a change happens.

    I mean, we talk about possession and recognizing it. Do those who have become desensitized have a demon on their back? This exposure has taken a long time to come. People, good people find themselves doing things they might not ever have done fifty years ago. Just take a look at domestic violence. It just doesn't seem like such a big deal anymore unless someone gets killed - and that's just one example.

    Who or what do you attribute this worlds acceptance of such behavior?
     
  20. Titus

    Titus New Member

    I think these issues and problems have always been here. There are more because the population has grown, technology gives us up-to-the-second reports of these happenings, and people have left their simple ways of life and gravitated toward "if it feels good, do it." Today's average family in the US is overextended in their activities and schedules. Materialism has shadowed the true meaning of Christmas for many people and the world marches on.....
     

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