Demon Possession

This I wonder about, so I will throw it out for consideration among you. According to the New Testament, not only did Jesus cast out demons from the bodies of various folks in whom demons dwelt, but He also gave His disciples/apostles the power and authority to do the same thing. Throughout the time of His ministry, Jesus, as I read it, used the power of the Holy Spirit, power that fell on Him immediately after His baptism, power that he nurtured during His 40 days and nights fasting and praying in the wilderness, to not only heal the sick, but also cast out demons. On one side, there is a prevailing opinion that man's use of the power of the Holy Spirit to do miracles, and therefore to cast out demons, extinguished with the death of the last apostle whom Jesus personally empowered on the day of the Pentecost. This opinion is based primarily on the notion that in the Bible, Phillip, a converted apostle, not an original, austensibly had not the power necessary to transfer the gift of the Holy Spirit to the Samaritans and others in whom he came in contact. This opinion views Paul, who received the gift of the Holy Spirit from Cornelius, who was himself not an original apostle, as an exception to the rule. Of course, on the other hand there is the opposing opinion that believes that the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the ability to convey miracles and cast out demons via the Holy Spirit are for all men and all times.

So here is that about which I wonder. If this second school is wrong in their belief that the Holy Spirit is still at man's disposal to perform supernatural feats through man even today, then what are we to think of demon possession? In other words, although according to the first view above, God decided that the power of the Holy Spirit should be withdrawn from man's grasp after the first group of apostles passed on, I can find no Biblical reference tells us that Satan did the same on his side, calling off demon possession. So if man has no power and authority over demons today, has no supernatural tool at his disposal, and since Satan's personality plainly would not allow him to stop inhabiting men's bodies on his own, then did God simply leave man at Satan's mercy with no tools available to deal with supernatural infirmities such as demon posession? How is man supposed to deal with the supernatural forces that are against him unless he is given some sort of supernatural tool?

I throw this out there for discussion and welcome all courteous opinions.

Hank

 

Re: Demon Posession

Hank,

I would love to go into depth on this conversation. You brought up many interesting theological arguements. But I am soooo tired after the start of an attack yesterday so I will keep my comment brief and maybe we can talk more later. I have friends who are missionary's all over the world. The most interesting stories seem to come from Africa and a few interesting stories from South America. The occult is very prominent, many follow pagan Gods. The meeting they hold there are many who slitter, scream, hiss and froth at the mouth. Some are in remote villages where they have never seen a demonic movie, or tel-evangelist. But at the name of Jesus they are set free. He and His name are the same yesterday, today and forever.
That is my feel about the whole thing. Would love to talk more in depth at a later time though......

 

Are you trying to stir up a hornets nest here??? hee heee..only kidding.

My take on this is that, we all have guides that do their best to protect us from demon prosession.

When I was a teenager, I dabbled in black magic, ouja boards and the like. I saw some crazy stuff that scared the cr*p out of me. One time, I attempted to play the ouja board in a garden shed on my own. I set all the letters out and proceeded to invite the spirits in. Little did I know what I was letting myself in for. The old glass I had my finger placed on made afew jerky movements then that was it....until I heard this almighty rattling and saw the old garden tools shaking violently off the wall. I cr*pped myself and ran out screaming like a demented bashee.

But there was worse to come...the next day I was not myself. I was moody and snappy with everyone. While listening to Iron Maiden in my room, I had the incredible urge to open the window and throw myself out of it. I was battling with this urge for hours, praying for God to save me. I even had thoughts of killing someone,..I was going crazy!!! So over and over I prayed for the lord to 'save me'. After what seemed like an age, I felt a overwheming sense of peace overcome me. The cloudy sky broke and in shone a brilliant ray of light. I was consumed by it and felt incredible love that is beyond words.

I was saved,.. and I own it to him to do the best I can in this life.

Peace to you all.

 

Bluesky,

That was an interesting experience you recounted for us. Thank you for it. And I believe that much of it is born out by the Bible. From your experience, you declare the belief that we all have "guides that do their best to protect us from demon possession." I agree. According to Paul's various writings in the New Testament, God has written His laws on our hearts, meaning that we all know right from wrong, and know it without necessarily having to read it in the Bible. So if we stay within the bounds of those laws written on our hearts, those guides, then perhaps one benefit would be that we would minimize the chances of living through the experience about which you wrote. I believe those laws written on our hearts might be the 'guides' you wrote about.

Also, I believe that it is Biblical that whatever you invite into your heart will find a home there. In your story, you invited demonic influences in your heart. Low and behold in they came, or so it would seem. Then you pleaded with God to save you, in He came in and you were cleansed, or again, so it would seem. At least you were able to recognize things for what they seemed early enough that you could still rid the demonic influences by pleading directly to God for help.

I expect that in many cases, possession is so entrenched that God's laws written on the heart become overwritten by demonic laws. At such a point, no longer could someone such as yourself be able to appeal to God. Written on your heart at that time would be the demonic law that you are not allowed to appeal to God. As such, it would not even occur to you to appeal to God. At such point, it would become necessary for an intercessor, a Godly one, to chase away the demon. That, I believe, is where Jesus was with the cases that are recounted in the Gospel. He was the intercessor, a might one. In one particular case, His disciples tried and tried to cast out a demon, but were unsuccesful. In this case, they had not sufficient power to overcome the demon in habiting this particular victim. Jesus came along and cast out the demon without delay. His disciples were amazed and asked why they had not been able to do so. Jesus' answer was that such a demon will only come out after much prayer and fasting, "juicing up," so to speak.. So it seems clear that the Bible indicates that demonic spirits can inhabit a body, soul if you will, in varying degrees. Back to your story, had you not appealed to God when you did, who knows what could or would have happened to you?

But your story also raises another point in my mind. According to your story, you appealed directly to God, "the Lord." My question for you is whether then, or now, you believe that the God in your prayers was the God of the Bible. It would make a difference, I believe, in light of your recent post concerning past life regression. I do not mean to pry. I appreciate your openness, truthfulness and candor. There is much good that can come from a discussion such as this, not just for us, but for anyone who might read this.

Thanks again for the story. We can all learn from it.

Hank

 

Newflady,

I hope and pray that you feel better very soon, very soon. Thank you for your post. I have heard much the same from various sources, that folks in Africa and South America, in the most remote areas, can be particularly influenced by spiritual forces. I have heard offered that these folks are such open books, so impressionable, that spirits can influence them almost at will. That makes certain sense to me, but I have not yet thought it all the way through the ramifications. Please come back when you feel better and we can discuss more...

 

Done it twice with patients. It was hard work. They did not turn their heads around 360 degrees and they did not spew icky green stuff. They were satanic cult survivors. Whether you believe in that or not is up to you. I invoked the power of God and trusted myself knowing I had the will and the tools. You might assign a "wow" factor to it but it really was just my work, something I did because it needed to be done and I knew I was up for it. I have full belief tht God works thru us.

 

Absolutely agree.

 

I am a retired prison guard, I can atest to the fact that their are many people posessed by demons today, and I also know people with the faith to cast them out, but that person has to want to be set free, and they are very few of them..Most don't want to give up that power they have inside them, even when they know its evil..

 

Leviticus,

Since you have some first hand experience with personalities who in your mind were demon possessed, I'd like to ask you about it. Specifically as you can, what was it about these folks to whom you refer, as opposed to maybe other folks in prison for the same crimes, that in your eyes identified them as being possessed by demons. I mean, how do we identify demon possession as opposed to just meanness in people who do bad things? You mention power. Is that a major part of it? Whatr about other traits? Do folks who are possessed conform to any pattern?

Thanks for taking part here.

Hank

 

Re: Demonic Possession

I originally asked this question because if God (of the Bible) has given man the power and authority over demons, enough that man can summon this power to cast them out of someone who is demon possessed, then plainly, somewhere the Bible would tell us that we have this power. I would like to know where in the scriptures that power is given to man. Plainly, demon possession occurred during Jesus' time. And nowhere does the Bible tell us that demonic spirits are no longer active. So if the Bible is correct, then demon possession must still be with us today. Gardenfish himself invoked God's power and cast out two demons that he knows of. So this does happen. Still, where in the scriptures can we point and know that this power and authority is here for us to use?

Stay with me on this one.

Hank

 

I will tell you something I remember and I am not a student of the Bible so I will not comment on that.

The pressure in the room increased at the person's body and there was a wind and cold on the body. Skin tone was pale and diminished. When the demon (I guess we need to call it something) was made to leave there came an instant release of the pressure from the body and it dissipated instantly and I cannot describe how quickly it was so fast, the body was warm again and color came back into it. The person's eyes let me see the heart and soul and that was special. I don't remember all that much else because it was so intense and I moved on to restore my energy. Some might consider it odd that I did not dwell on it all, but then it was difficult, intricate work and when it was finished I there was nothing more to be done but move on and live. Oh, one thing - the "voice" made the hair on my arms stand up.

 

Sobering post, Intrepid.....

 

Demon procession is very real through the gateways of ouja boards and the like. Anyone who has dabbled in them will testify to their cause.

 

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Gardenfish, what "voice?" What did you hear? What did it say?

 

Dianne,

How would you know that the darkness one encounters would be one's self or an external entity? If the external entity were smart, it would disguise itself in some shape or fashion, perhaps to create the impression that it is part of one's self. So how would one really know?

Thanks for taking part here.

 

I can appreciate that you and others would not believe in the spiritual world. And as you say, I am fine with that. There is no personal evidence however that the spiritual world does not exist, only to folks who have experienced it that it does exist. You have no experience that it exists. That is plain. But unless people make this stuff up who write these reports, and in this setting that is a pretty remote possibility, then I personally accept that they have dealt first hand with the spiritual world. I have no reason to doubt either their sincerity or the possibility. The mere fact of our own consciousness is proof enough for me that other forms of consciousness are possible. Who am I to discount that? Be that as it may, I did not form this thread to debate this issue. This corner of the website is for religious and spiritual discussions. Inherent in that title is the notion that spirits do exist. According to the Bible, spirits exist, Godly ones and ungodly ones. According to the Bible, the spiritual world exists. So the premise here is that spirits and the spirtual world exists.

I am still looking for someone to give us the scriptural basis for man's authority to cast out demons. If one believes the Bible (I know many do not, so please don't go there), somewhere in those scriptures, for man to be able to cast out demons, man must have been given that authority. Where is it?

 

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Gosh, I don't know. Generally when I feel something divine it is in response to my own efforts, prayer for instance. When I receive an answer to a prayer, generally 'in kind' rather than, say, a message, then that is about as close as I get to feeling something 'divine.' So maybe I just need to become more receptive. I believe what you say. I just don't generally experience it.

 

Acts 19: 13-16