Are you in the vast majority

.

 

Rotties, I would agree with much of what you have said. When anyone refers to the vast majority on this site as having anything other than a vestibular actor in their symptomatology, and that turns out to be wrong, as it no doubt is here, then that is nothing but misinformation, which if relied upon will only make things worse for those who do. And in this case, like so many times in the past, I suspect that Nassman's point is merely in opposition to certain of my own, as evidenced by his choosing to sanitize his first remarks now expressing "many" rather than "the vast majority." Plainly he was insincere in his first remarks or he would not have felt the need to alter them. And if they were insincere, then what was the real reason for making them? I expect the reason was pure opposition to me. I am all for full discussion in good faith. But that kind of discussion is only self-serving.

 

Yes - the disease is real, very real. But the name MM just means "we know you're sick, but don't know why"

 

Amen papajoe!

 

telling people their very real disorder is in their mind can be incredibly insulting and frustrating to them. The third or fourth doctor I saw told me my vertigo attacks were pscyological - I said hmmm and never went back to him (apparantly when I had attacks in small rooms it was because I was claustophobic - something I have never suffered from). Another told me that I had ear problems because there was something about the world I didn't want to hear! Ha, that was so bad I laughed.

 

I have heard that so many times.. I wanted to punch some family members right dead in their freakin ears. I have also heard " OH, I had that for a week or so,,but it went away, how come yours didnt"??
The post I wrote was just saying that it can go hand in hand..anxiety and menieres.

 

I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY.  I believe most people that come through this forum don't have meniere's.  Doctors are too quick to label it as such and most are too narrowminded to look in other directions. And sadly many don't recognize other causes for these symptoms and keep treating people for the wrong thing. Too much unnecessary suffering. Very sad.

 

I don't really understand the point of the original post. Seems to me a conscious effort just to stir things up needlessly. I think people come here for support and answers and those things tend to fall by the wayside in threads like these.

 

Terry, I'm in the group who do not believe that Meniere's has a meaningful enough definition as to be of any value to those dubbed with that diagnosis. But Meniere's is not at issue here. At issue is whether the vast majority of people who come here and who suffer from Meniere's symptoms-vertigo, tinnitus, hearing loss, etc, most of whom have a Meniere's diagnosis from a competent medical practitioner, have a pschological basis for those symptoms by virtue of certain physiological factors unrelated to vestibular disorders. Even if it might be, which I cannot imagine, I see no basis other than wild speculation to make such a claim.

 

Wow.

 

As long as we're laying our cards on the table, here is what I believe:

The term Meniere's Disease is meaningless UNTIL the day comes that the diagnosis leads to treating the underlying cause. Right now it either leads to ineffective treatment of the symptoms. Either diuretics, steroids, or surgery or chemical treatments to destroy the function of the vestibular nerve. This is very frustrating to me.

I believe that the underlying cause of MM symptoms is often related to a challenged immune system which allows a virus to reactivate in the vestibular nerve. I think many of you would benefit from an elimination diet, and based on what I've found in the last few weeks, by taking anti-fungal medications. But most of you won't even consider trying it. This is also very frustrating to me.

I believe that physical damage to the vestibular nerve can cause MM symptoms. This might be chemical damage or mechanical damage (ala Henry's theory) for which NUCCA may help. This may or may not involve a virus. I know Henry is very frustrated when people don't take him seriously. I also believe that Henry is so emotionally attached to his theory that he opens himself up for abuse at the hands of Nassman.

I also believe that there is a small portion of people who embrace being sick. Sometimes it's easier to be sick than to be well. I don't have anybody here on menieres.org in mind, but throughout my life I have seen people who's identity are based on being sick, and to suddenly be well would be intimidating to them.

I also believe that the psychological factors do play a big part in the suffering of MM and MAV. One of the reasons I hate the term MM is that, all of a sudden, you have a disease to blame it on and there is the tendency to blame in on MM (which is essentially a meaningless term) rather than look for the underlying cause. I think this is probably Nassman's point and I expect this is frustrating to him. But Nassman, while there may be people in the world with worse people skills than yours, none of them are here on menieres.org. And picking on Henry does not win you any friends.

I believe some of you will hate me for what I've written. Sorry about that. As I told my GP at my annual physical this morning: "While I've been sick and searching for a cure, I don't have time to worry about peoples egos". Except mine of course. Mine is big enough for two or three people.

But mostly, it's spring, and it getting warm, and I believe I'll go fishing.

Peas.

 

Well said.

 

Seriously man, are you mentally retarded or are you seriously trying to pull my chain?

I NEVER said that there are people here that have a a pschological basis for their symptoms by virtue of certain physiological factors unrelated to vestibular disorders!!!!

Again, for the 1 millionth time, I said that I believe there are many here who suffer from REAL and DEBILITATING dizziness that is caused by non-vestibular causes be they PHYSICAL or PSHYCHOLOGICAL in nature.

Do you understand the english language? Do you see the bolded word "or" in between the two words? Do you see me saying ANYWHERE that people are getting dizziness because of the psycological aspects they endure due to their physical ailment?

I'm done with you. Judging on the countless PM's I got from some very wonderful people here, they all see right through you and agree that you have completely altered my words and the confirm that the only reason you posted this topic is to stir shit up.

Well done...I tip my hat to you.

 

Papajoe,

You will never lose me as a friend by shooting straight. Nassman would not either. And I have tried to help Nassman, and still would.

Taking me seriously...I have to think about that one. It never occurs to me that someone would not take me seriously. If they don't it is to their own detriment, not mine. No one here has anything that I want from them, except perhaps their sincerity. And some folks I believe I could count as friends, and their friendship means a lot. But beyond that, whether someone takes me seriously is not my concern. Only the truth that I know which might help those who do take me seriously matters. And this is likely the only place that folks might hear this truth. If I go, the truth goes with me. So in good conscience, I cannot go. I suppose I'll be doing this for the next decades, or until medical science catches up with the truth. At that time, I guess I could do something different. But nothing keeps me here out of a frustration of not being taken seriously. I expect that I am taken very seriously.

I do respect your opinion.

 

In the end it comes down to "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink".

 

I understand that point. And on the same hand, there are, and have been, many folks out there who through repetition eventually drank the water and were helped. It's like advertising in a way. The message has to sink in. Sometimes that takes a while. Here is a case in point. After my first post in Jan of 07, Debin was one of my first responders. Three years later she finds out that a NUCCA practice opened giving her the opportunity to be checked. And because the message stayed in front of her for as long as it did, she got checked and as a result her life is transformed. So there is a certain pipeline of folks out there who by virtue of seeing this message repeatedly, eventually take advantage of it and are helped in the process. And Nassman has been here the whole time, watching a slow but steady flow of people take me seriously, and as a result their lives are transformed. So what he's doing by making such an absurd statement as he did, is trying to rationalize how these folks who have been helped seemingly got better. You see, it was always in their heads, Papajoe. And because these folks never really had vestibular abnormalities to begin with, the treatments only worked as a placebo. And then because that idea fell flat earlier, he decides to sanitize it by changing a word here or there. And then he calls me mentally ill, implying that of the folks who have been duped into a restored life by chiropractic treatments, I'm the head dupee. I assure you, I am perfectly healthy physically. But I'll leave it to whoever cares to decide whether I can say the same thing mentally.

 

You can't control what other people think or (to a certain point) say about you. Just do your thing and let others judge the message for themselves.

And remember the old saying (not directed at either of you specifically): "Never argue with a fool. Bystanders will have a hard time telling which is which".

 

I've read most of this thread, and am pretty surprised at what I am seeing.

Apparently, since no one is able to discern the causes of Meniere's we all want to argue about it?

The man put forth a hypothesis..his opinion (we all have those) and for it he was targeted
in this thread? What the hell?

BTW, IMO it's GW Bush's fault (everything else has been blamed on him, so why not?)

;D

Mike

 

If I was the site moderator I would boot both of their asses away for 90 days for acting so childish.


Piggy

 

It would seem that Nassman is trying to have it both ways:

But then he said: