A Catholic Monarchy?

Discussion in 'Your Religion & Spiritual Corner' started by barnyardbird, Oct 27, 2010.

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  1. barnyardbird

    barnyardbird Guest

    http://www.examiner.com/atheism-in-los-angeles/a-real-catholic-takes-on-atheist-hate-1
     
  2. June-

    June- New Member

    I am sure there is a reason you have these issues. I hope you can get past them.
     
  3. hollymm

    hollymm Me, 'in' a tree.

    So byb, The point being??
     
  4. carolyn33

    carolyn33 New Member

    Pothole
     
  5. carolyn33

    carolyn33 New Member

    I love the pothole you can jump OVER it, go AROUND it, FLIP OVER it, Peer DOWN it, but MAN DO NOT FALL IN THAT BLACK HOLE You never know where it ends up... and living here I'm sick of hearing 'piehole' hee heeeeee..
     
  6. leviticus

    leviticus Jonah's whale

    Doesn't the good book say do unto others as You would have them do unto You,,,
     
  7. Imnoscientist

    Imnoscientist New Member

    BYB,

    I'm not really sure of the point of the link you posted either. All of us can find things (Bible passages, blogs, op ed pieces etc) which will support our existing world view. It might give us a few moments of comfort in knowing that other people are like us but do we learn anything new? Probably not. And for people who already have quite hard core views either way (atheist or religious) it's probably just going to widen the existing gap between them.
     
  8. Henrysullivan

    Henrysullivan New Member

    BYB, you are rapidly running out of room here. And that is with With Christians, Muslims, atheists, it doesn't matter.

    Rather than making a statement by posting a link, which has been your M O until now, let me encourage you to speak from the heart, from that place that truth as you know it derives, and tell us what you think and why you think it. Do not make us guess. Do not insult our intelligence. Do not try to impress, or offend, or intimidate.

    If you care to have any relationship with others here at all, you have to tell folks who you are, not disclosing identity, but personality. Because up until now, you have offended every person here, from every point of view and from every spiritual makeup. You have done what has been inconceivable until now. You have united a very diverse group of people into one predominant mindset and opinion. And that opinion is that you are not very likeable, by anyone.

    Personally, I think there must be something about you that is likeable. You just haven't presented it to us yet. But I expect that everyone here would delight to know what that likeable aspect of you is.

    Why don't you give it your best shot and let it show? Here is a hint. You do that by speaking from the heart, like I am now. Hopefully you can still find it.
     
  9. Imnoscientist

    Imnoscientist New Member

    Hank,

    You don't speak for me when you say there is a united opinion that BYB is not very likeable. I don't know much at all about BYB (his posts are pretty brief usually), certainly not enough to decide I don't like him. I also don't think you get to monitor how or what BYB posts. Everyone expresses themselves differently.
     
  10. Imnoscientist

    Imnoscientist New Member

    Ouch Hank. What's that about?
     
  11. barnyardbird

    barnyardbird Guest

    Ins,
    They'll always be a gap between the believer and the non-theist.Today's link is about an ultra conservative Christian who feels democracy can no longer exist and that the United States needs a Catholic Monarchy.Then there are opposing views by PZ Myers,a biologist and blogger of Pharyngula.
    Btw,I was hesitant about posting this because I wasn't sure whether theists here would take this the wrong way and of course unfortunately they did.I was under the assumption that people here had an open mind,but I was wrong.I didn't post it to bad mouth religion or religious belief but again people here think I did.I didn't post it here to convert believers because that just won't happen,though statistically in the United Stated 1.9% of the population are atheists and as much as 16% of the population are non-believers meaning they have no connection to organized religion.As you know Ins most atheists and non-believers believed at one time in the Christian religion,but they lost their faith and became atheists or non-believers.But I think the people on this forum,Religion & Spirituality are hard core theists so I know whatever I say or post won't have any effect on them.I usually post links for information purposes.But I guess I should have realized before I post this that anyone reading this would think I'm bashing religion,which I'm not.It's just two different viewpoints.I usually read many of the posts here,except for Hank's which I usually quite long and have biblical quoted passages that don't impress me,but other posts by these hard core believers I usually read but they have no effect upon me.I just read them for amusement,because Ins as you most likely know there are hundreds,maybe thousands of religious beliefs.They can't all be right and most likely they're all wrong.

    BYB
     
  12. Imnoscientist

    Imnoscientist New Member

    BYB,

    If you have an expectation that people will take your post(s) the wrong way then maybe the answer is to write a little something alongside the link to 'frame' it - that is, why you put it there and what you want it to do. I suspect that some of the readers of this forum also have expectations of you - so they are 'ready' to be angry with or dismissive of you. So, a 'frame' might set the context - as you've done in your post just now. Of course, you can just post a link and let it speak for itself. Entirely up to you.

    I agree with you that there will always be a gap between believers and non theists. That gap is about belief. It won't likely be bridged (unless people convert either way). BUT we can try and bridge the gap of understanding - by asking questions and learning about what/how/why others believe. In My Ideal World that's what happens - people of differing views wouldn't shut themselves away and/or only mix with those who are just like them - they'd try and learn about each other. I suspect there would be less wars and stuff if we all tried to do that.
     
  13. Henrysullivan

    Henrysullivan New Member

    INS, I will take yours as constructive criticism, and I do not mean to speak for others. At the same time, there is a uniting of sorts here. That you are not really sure of the point of the link BYB posted, places you in agreement with many others, including myself.

    It would be easy for me and perhaps others, maybe even some atheists, to infer that BYB has some ax to grind against Christians and Christianity. But I am left to infer that because I am yet to read anything that BYB has given us from the heart. He has been caustic, rude, he has tried to intimidate, certainly by publishing my personal address, one that anyone could look up since I disclosed who I am in my very first post here three years ago. So it does not intimidate me to know that someone knows who I am. Yet there is that attempt to intimidate. If nothing else, to do that is obviously not nice, it is not likeable, and I believe even you offered a comment on that particular event, which indicates that you were taken aback by it as well. So even you, by your own remarks, acknowledge that there is something about the way the BYB has begun to use this forum that is not nice, not likeable. And that is why I said what I did. I do not mean to speak for you, nor anyone. But there is evidence to what I say.

    My remarks earlier to BYB are to one object, and that is to prevent him from becoming irrelevant among those involved in these discussions. If he continues to act in the way he has, then he will largely become that, irrelevant and ignored, as one might ignore a familiar picture everpresent above the mantle. I, for one, would like to know who he is, why he thinks as he does. But I will say this, and do not believe I am alone. I won't endure much more of this kind of confrontation or insulting, causticism. I have tried to engage the man. I have peacefully and completely answered his questions. I have invited him to speak from the standpoint of who he is. If who he is is not interested, fine, I am not interested either and we can just ignore each other. But rightly or wrongly, I am fast gaining the impression that most others are right there with me. But please pardon me for including anyone in that for whom it is not the case.
     
  14. Imnoscientist

    Imnoscientist New Member

    Maybe BYB does have an axe to grind against Christianity. I don't know. That's his business, not mine or anyone else's.

    I agree with you Hank that BYB has posted things I found OTT - publishing your address for instance. And as you correctly say, I made a comment about that at the time. But Hank, I have also found many of your posts OTT, and commented on those as well. So what is your point here?

    Hank you then wrote that you are trying to help BYB, by preventing him from becoming, in your view 'irrelevant'. Are you again trying to teach people how they should be (for example your previous post where you deliberately annoyed Scott to teach him something about himself)? We're all grown ups here Hank - you're not a moderator here - you don't get to decide for people how they should present themselves, nor have you been appointed as anyone's life coach.

    That's easily fixed. Don't converse with him, don't even read his posts.
     
  15. Henrysullivan

    Henrysullivan New Member

    INS, when I first began conversing with you, frankly, I saw nothing redeeming about you or your course of conversation. To me, you were a contrarian, an argument waiting to happen. I stated that. And then you even confirmed that for me before you left on your trip to wherever in the far east you went.

    But in the course conversing with you, for these months hence, either I have brought out the better angels of your nature, or your angels have disclosed themselves on their own. I say that because I no longer hold you in the same category as before. I actually have seen certain virtue in some things that you have written, and I think you have acknowledged the same about me.

    One thing I agree with you about is something you just wrote, and that is that even though we may never agree, we may be able to ultimately understand each other. And that is the next best thing. And in this world, I think that that is a nobel goal.


    If I had given up on you, ignored your posts, as perhaps I was at times disposed to do, then I would never have come to the point that I have the respect for you that I presently do. That is why I do not like to give up on people, like you, like ByB, like anyone.

    So yes, I could just ignore BYB's posts. I could have ignored your posts. But I am better for having endured the bumps and bruises to have gotten to know you better, and I expect that the same is possible if I were to get to know BYB better. I do not know that, but I expect it and I do not like to give up on anyone before the relationship is just not salvageable.
     
  16. barnyardbird

    barnyardbird Guest

    Henry,
    I have no ax to grind against Christians or Christianity.I was brought up by my aunt who was Jewish and her husband(my uncle) who was Roman Catholic.My aunt had no religious belief.My uncle did but to what extent I don't know,but he was friends with a Father who he used to take to the racetrack.I'm sure the Father didn't bet as he once told me he got paid $3 per month.I don't know if that's necessarily true or not but that's what he told me.
    My own father was Jewish but I think he was agnostic.His parents who were my grandparents were orthodox Jews.From about the age of 12 I pretty much knew religion was a scam,but I got Bar-Mitzvahed anyways to appease my grandparents.After that I never set foot in a synagogue again.Many many Jews consider themselves atheist Jews,they identify culturally with the Jewish people,like Richard Feynman,but call themselves atheist Jews.I haven't decided whether I want to be called an atheist Jew.I enjoy being with Jews but I have no use for Judaism.
    I have always been amused how people can believe without any empirical evidence.
    Anyways that's just a short bio of whom I am.

    BYB
     
  17. Wino

    Wino Resident Honey Badger

    Ooooh, ooooh, can I answer?!?!
     
  18. Henrysullivan

    Henrysullivan New Member

    I have to keep you on your toes. I'd hate for you to lose your edge. :)

    Seriously, you are a doll.
     
  19. Henrysullivan

    Henrysullivan New Member

    Sometimes I think we have an audience here.

    BYB, thank you for your sincere remarks. You say you have no axe to grind, yet even fellow atheists are remarking such as, "Do you have other interests besides religion bashing? How about we find other nice things to talk about? This is getting so repetitive." So when I say that others see along with me that there is something unlikeable in the nature of your posts, perhaps you can begin to understand that there is credence in what I say.

    I do not care whether you believe religuon is a crock or not. But what might interest me is why you feel as you do. And for folks who take part in these kinds of forums, there must be a reason. That is mine. I do like to know how people think. All I know is what you think, but not why. I don't know anything except that you have a problem with deafness, no doubt balance issues, and that you are of Jewish heritage and believe that all religion is a crock. And you have some exceedingly caustic ways of expressing that. Frankly, I think all the causticism is a crock. I think you hide behind a caustic exterior so that you can extricate yourself from any relationship and always blame the other party.

    Yeah, you don't read my posts. That's bullshit and the Pope ain't Catholic. Now I don't care if you read them or not. But you are kidding me when you say that. And you should know that I know that.

    So why don't we try to open this up a bit. I understand that you are 67. Are you retired? What did you or do you do for a living? And then I want to know why this person who says he has no axe to grind, out of all of the posts he has made since he has been here, has centered the vast majority of them in the religion area of this forum, advertising disdain for anything that has to do with religion, or God, disrespecting the views of those who do value their religious views and their relationship with God. What is in it for you to be as caustic as you have to publically disrespect the heartfelt beliefs of folks who might otherwise be your friends? I see no upside for you there.
     
  20. barnyardbird

    barnyardbird Guest

    Henry,
    I post here because well it's here and as an atheist I feel there preferably should be a forum in Menieres.org that'll accommodate those of us who don't believe in gods or any myths or superstitions.But the owner/moderator probably doesn't feel as I do.
    I like this website even though it hasn't really helped me with my Meniere's Disease.I feel so much more fortunate that I have so few problems today vs.say 6 years ago when I used to use a cane to walk.Today I no longer need a cane.My balance is so much better it's unbelievable.I think I owe it all to allergy shots and a low sodium diet.
    Now you have asked why do I believe as I do.Well I'm not afraid of death.Once my life ends,I will no longer have any existence.I don't believe in lying to myself and believing that there's something after my death because the fact is there just isn't.I accept that.I'm not interested in you or someone else trying to alter my non beliefs.That I won't accept.One thing I like about Jews is that Jews don't proselytize their beliefs.Christians do and I don't like that.I'm comfortable with my non-beliefs.
    My uncle John was a Roman Catholic.He was quite a character and in many respects I admired him.He was a college graduate,an accountant,a restauranteur,a gambler,an alcoholic,a work-a-coholic and a cigar smoker.We never discussed religion or why he believed as he did.The subject never came up.I know in his restaurant he used to shoot craps with his bookie.I always wondered if he knew anyone in the mafia but I never asked him.
    I have a cousin who I haven't seen in about 50 years.I would've have wanted to have a friendship with her but she never was interested.I admire her because of her accomplishments.She was an editor one time of 3 magazines,Moment,Biblical Archaeological Review and one other magazine I don't remember.She has a sister who lives in San Marino who has her own life.I seem to have cousins who live in all parts of the U.S.who have their own lives and are no longer interested in the families that they grew up with.So I surround myself with my friends from the atheist community.
    I'm not married.I don't think I ever really wanted to get married.I've had girl friends and one girl friend our relationship lasted 18 years.Now I no longer date nor have any interest in doing so.I don't need the aggravation.
    I used to work as an optician.Had my own shop for 12 years.I now own a 20 unit apartment house where I live and manage the place.

    BYB
     

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